Zeuhl Definition
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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1125
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Topic: Zeuhl Definition
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Subject: Zeuhl Definition
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 02:28
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I'm curious, always curious... For those (I hope not only french people) who know MAGMA, ESKATON, WEIDORJE, DÜN, and so many others : "What is your definition for ZEUHL MUSIC" (I think it is the real first step to work on this category of music
For me who have no words for the moment I only suggest this picture of the "Old Master Vander" (my old portly gentleman with a little hair but always his wonderfull eyes)
------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
Replies:
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 03:47
Check this page for the official definition http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/MAGMA-ARTICLES-option-Jan-1988.html - http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Alley/8366/MAGMA-ARTICL ES-option-Jan-1988.html  ------------- 
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Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 03:57
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yessssssss I know it but pleeeeeease, forget what it is said about Zeuhl by professionnals and official definitions (mainly wrong or inexact for me) It is your OWN definition which represents an interrest for me and I hope the work of MAX. Think by yourself Is it possible ???? ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
philippe wrote:
Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 04:19
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je crois qu'il n'y a pas de meilleur définition que celle de l'intéréssé lui même, non? -------------
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Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 04:51
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bon laisse béton, c'est vraiment sans espoirs NB : Christian VANDER a donné de très nombreuses définitions différentes qu'il serait inutile pour le moment d'évoquer ici. J'en ai même une qu'il m'a donné de visu lors d'une discussion que j'ai eu avec lui il y a bien longtemps. Toujours est-il que ces définitions s'adressent plus à MAGMA qu'au mouvement Zeuhl en général et il me semble difficile dans l'état actuel des choses qu'elles correspondent par exemple à RUINS, DÜN ou autres avatars.
Je sens poindre une immense fatigue ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 13:35
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A thread launched by a french woman for french people only. Zeuhl : a really unique kind of music that blends elements of hard-bop (John Coltrane), opera, rock, some dissonance and a language understandable only by them (kobaïa), plus judging by their album artworks [I never got into their lyrics] and their album titles [Mekanikh destruktiw kommandoh], the musical world they created seems very gloomy ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 04 2004 at 14:01
Unfortunately yes But the reason of this thread is MAX.... He suggested me to work on Zeuhl and as I am not alone Maybe we have to cancel all Zeuhl music here and to swich to a french (or european) site I hope no ! Pls wake up american people ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
(and some european members...)Posted By: philippe
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 04:15
 Zheul music created by the frenchies of Magma is a particuar form of fusion jazz including vocals, innovative elements of composition borrowed from classical contemporary music. A kind of Avant-garde jazz with unlimited possibilities of orchestration. -------------
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Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 05:04
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I only have ONE Zeuhl album (MDK by Magma). I love it, but not always. I have to be in the mood for it, because sometimes I find it very inaccessible. For me, the album is very special. Am I right? |
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 06:49
This don't surprise me and I feel the same thing. As Zeuhl needs a spiritual approach we have to find good state of mind to ear this music and to appreciate it
Some people said "Chamber-rock" but I don't have the musical knowledge and competences to discuss this term.
Nobody is right or wrong in music (it is my own opinion) Everybody has the right to feel what he wants by himself, it is very personal Playing music and to speak about music is another problem...sometimes a great responsability... ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
(not possible when I wash table-servicePosted By: diddy
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 06:55
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Art Zoyd and Present belong to this genre, right?
I have
Art Zoyd: Symphinie pour le jour on bruleront les cites, Muique puor 'Odyssee, Generation sans futur and Archieves 1
Present: High Infidelity
I really like it but it's very hard to get, it's a shame. Maybe there should be more remasters for this genre. ------------- If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... George Orwell |
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 07:02
For some people yes, other no...
For me Art Zoyd (and even Univers Zero) is not typical Zeuhl
In this case what is the category of this music ????
I have all the records of this band but I really don't know if it is possible to propose you my help here as illegal copies are forbidden ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 07:30
By saying "Am I right?" I meant: "Is Magma influenced by minimal music?" or "does anyone else hear what I mean?" |
Posted By: diddy
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 07:36
Yes, it's forbidden but just imagine how rare the albums are. I think that a band like Art Zoyd would be happy to have more fans and listeners. All there albums are sold out and people discovering this band have no chance to get these albums. Sometimes I see one on eBay but it always gets so
 expensive that I don't buy it because I really can't afford it, I'm a student, I was a student...but yet I have no real income. And btw, buying an album on eBay doesn't help the band because they don't get money from it.I discovered Art Zoyd and Present, as wel as Magma but don't get their albums so I stopped to expand this kind of music because the albums are very rare and expensive
 ...------------- If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... George Orwell |
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 08:29
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Vander himself says that he was mainly influenced by John Coltrane he has even learned drums with the drummer of John Coltrane. But this influence is not musical but spiritual : the way to play music (any kind of music). I would like just to add this : Most of white people use to ear music with the intellect, brain but Zeuhl music has to be eared with his eart and spiritual mind like black people. That makes all difference ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 08:32
So you don't belong to the people responsible of the decreasing of the CD sales ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
Posted By: diddy
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 08:38
No
 I'm the oppisite. I buy about 8 CDs a Month. Almost my whole money goes out to the record companies OK some of them are bought on eBay but the rest... ------------- If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear... George Orwell |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 09:07
I'm not always in a spiritual mood... |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 15:59
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J'ai eu un mauvais experience avec le Zeuhl, et a cette moment je croie que c'est pas vraiment un style de musique qui m'interesse. Je ne sais pas pourqoi j'ai pris le temps pour dire cela, mais peut-etre je voulais un excuse pour parler le francais Et je m'excuse, mon francais n'est pas tres bon... |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 16:03
Si, il est plutôt bon ! ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: lucas
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 16:05
Art Zoyd and Present are classified as post-RIO, i.e. the new wave of Rock in Opposition, as others like 5 UU's, U-Totem... ------------- "Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood) |
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 16:12
Largement meilleur que mon anglais Useful Not Idiot At All, what do you mean by bad experience ? Maybe you have to retry....as it is like love ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 16:20
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More and more sub-categories, it is the mess I saw them classified in RIO and even in Zeuhl. In my own opinion ART ZOYD has a lot of eras so it is very difficult too put them into a category or another. All the records I have are from 1976 to 2001 so a minimum of 25 years of music !!!!! Maybe I'll write the bio within 10 years ------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
Posted By: Bryan
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 16:32
| I heard the Magma album that this site recommends (not the live one, the other one), and let's just say that it was REALLY not for me. My main problem with it was that I didn't care for their whole "made-up language", although the backing music didn't do much for me either. If there are other Zeuhl artists you would recommend who are a little less... overly ambitious, I'd be willing to give them a chance. |
Posted By: Tauhd Zaïa
Date Posted: July 05 2004 at 17:16
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If you don't like MAGMA (M.D.K. I think) I should not recommand you another band : It will kill you No seriously you could try The Live and Üdü Wüdü. If you don't like, stop to injure your ears with Zeuhl As I like a lot of musics I'm sure we'll have a lot of opportunities to share our pleasure on other bands.
------------- The State Of Grace Is Achieved |
Posted By: Syzygy
Date Posted: May 08 2005 at 15:38
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As I understand it, Zeuhl can be translated from Kobaian as 'celestial', which seems appropriate to me. At their best, Zeuhl musicians demonstrate how discipline and focus of the will can help you transcend time, space and physical limitations in a way that few others working in rock music do; only King Crimson and some of Zappa's bands have achieved anything comparable. It's music which is as often sublime (in the Kantian sense) as it is beautiful, and which exploits the tension between individualism (represented by composers and soloists) and subsuming individuality (near telepathic ensemble playing). It's music which can induce an altered state without resorting to artificial stimulants. It's music which can be demanding, but which rewards effort. ------------- 'Like so many of you I've got my doubts about how much to contribute to the already rich among us...' Robert Wyatt, Gloria Gloom |
Posted By: Joren
Date Posted: May 08 2005 at 16:31
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I miss Tauhd
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Posted By: DallasBryan
Date Posted: May 08 2005 at 19:04
I agree with the useful one! I derive much more pleasure from Zao or Weidorje. Zao's Kawana being exceptional. Dun - Eros is an early 80's album that is probably the best in the Zuehl category to me. Magmas' Kohntarkosz is pretty good too, here they are instrumental, dropping the Kobian goofball language. I wouldnt really consider Zao - Kawana or Dun - Eros as Zuehl, I think its a wasted word for Magma's premature efforts to break the language barrier in europe with some kind of space talk. Understand Im not a Trekkie either, think sci-fi buffs would enjoy this stuff! Anyway Dun mixes Zuehl influences(french electronic fusion) with King Crimson and Gentle Giant among other influences, kinda pulls down everybodies pants. Zao are typical superior french fusion artists that are very comfortable with playing high quality fusion. Eskaton -4 is another very good (Zeuhl?) album but the lyrics are in French which is not to my taste. But musically superior to english fusion artists. |