Let's talk 'To the bone' by Steven Wilson
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URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=111756
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Topic: Let's talk 'To the bone' by Steven Wilson
Posted By: AlejandroR
Subject: Let's talk 'To the bone' by Steven Wilson
Date Posted: August 21 2017 at 17:36
Recently there’s been a lot of talk about Steven Wilson’s new album and it has finally come out. This album is, without a doubt, different than anything he has done before- resulting in a lot of controversy- possibly Wilson’s marketing strategy? For some, the record includes such pop moments that it defies the very definition of progressive rock. But isn’t combining rock with other styles and creating fresh sounds the very essence of the musical genre? The album speaks of politics, war, obession and joy. It’s a dance between Wilson’s most sinister and happiest sides, creating an album that will leave us something to talk about for a long time. How does he do it? How does Steven Wilson compose his music? I will try to give you a taste of what makes up one of his new songs. Before the album came out, a lyric video was made available on the artist’s official Youtube page. It personifies a refugee, and includes synthesizers, intimate lyrics, and guitar, synth and harmonica solos, yes that’s right- a harmonica solo. Let’s analyze the chord progressions that make up the song “Refuge”: Here in the wreckage The winter is hard I sleep in the same clothes That I dragged through the mud The first verse throws us into the story of the refugee; things are going badly, he’s cold and has very little. Wilson barely gives any movement to the verses, possibly in an attempt to express the infinite wait of the refugee’s long and uncertain situation. The first verse uses only a piano – playing the same chord 4 times until we arrive at the first chorus. The only chord used in the verses is C5 (C major without the third, as though he is intentionally removing colour from the chord). This colourless feel gives us a taste of the chorus that makes the song. And if you ask me Nothing’s changed There’s nowhere else I can go So I stay The chords that form the chorus are Em7, Bm, Em7, Gmaj7. Again, these chords are very stable. Even though in this progression there is more movement than the single chord verses, it still has very little and sets the tone of the song (G major) staying in the tonic chords (I, IIIm y VIm). This formula repeats itself twice completely, but before going into the third verse there is a quick and simple bridge with synthesizers and some hi-hat (drums) that signal a change in the refugee’s vision.
There are two chords used in this bridge: Cmaj – Gmaj7; the classic IV – I. For the third verse and chorus we have a bigger and more dramatic view of the refugee’s situation; there are synthesizers, a timid and opaque drum, and the chorus is sung in falsetto to introduce the second and most tragic part of the piece. In order to unleash all the fury of a character stuck in such a terrible situation, the drums are finally more present and the chord progression becomes more interesting. Even though it is made up of only three chords, it lasts eight bars and is divided like this: [ C5 | C5 | C5 | D5 | E5 | E5 | E5 | D5 ] it is repeated during the harmonica, electric guitar and synth solos finishing in a silence. The silence is only interrupted by what seems to be the sound of children playing and singing. The outro is the combination of a bridge in which we hear the harmonica and the chorus one last time.
The last bridge is: Am, Bm, Am, Bm, Em, Cmaj, Em, C major and it is repeated once. Visit my progrock-dedicated blog: doyouevenriff.net
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Replies:
Posted By: TheNonArtist
Date Posted: August 21 2017 at 18:58
I loved the album. Excellent songwriting and production. Wasn't really a fan of Permanating, but that's only 1 track. 8/10 record for me.
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Posted By: mlkpad14
Date Posted: August 21 2017 at 20:40
Fan of the new album... not much to talk about though... kinda straightforward.
------------- https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: August 22 2017 at 00:58
I don't feel it's really all that different from what he's done before at all. If anything, it's not too far removed from the `indie-rock' Porcupine Tree period of `Stupid Dream' and `Lightbulb Sun', but just even more straightforward. Where in PT a lot more instrumental soloing might have shown up, instead on `To The Bone' he usually fills those same blanks with different vocal passages.
That might actually be a fault of the album - too much singing, too much of the time. We know there wouldn't be a ton of more overtly `proggy' spots on it this time, but man, when they do show up, all of a sudden your ears prick up and the album comes alive again! Well, for a minute or two before more singing.
It's far from a bad album, and despite one or one tracks, it's not a `pop' album at all, even if it is `poppier' in parts. If anything it's really just a fancy indie-rock album.
But one strange thing about it....it's curiously unemotional and even Wilson himself sounds a little unengaged in parts. It has similar parts to his other solo albums that delivered quite effective emotional outpourings, but here he often sounds quite dreary and bland.
No `buyers regret' or anything, but probably not one I'll personally return to too often once the `Steven Wilson has a new album out' interest winds down a little. Even the little stop-gap `4 1/2' EP sounded far more exciting.
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Posted By: lazland
Date Posted: August 22 2017 at 01:54
I agree with Michael. It is not altogether different from what preceded it. I have given it one listen, and like what I hear, with the strange exception of the longer track. However, as I say, only one listen in, what is clear is that it is far from being a mere "pop" album. There was a lot of media puff promoting this one, most of which can be safely ignored.
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Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: August 22 2017 at 02:29
Good point, Laz!
It's also strange that all those reference-points the press releases made of it being comparable to Peter Gabriel, Talk Talk, etc....and there's really not much like that at all on the album! 
But (at least for me personally), I think there's a bigger issue with the album...while there's certainly reliable stuff on it that's hardly bad, there seems to be a real lack of truly killer pieces that make you want to keep returning to them.
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Posted By: AlejandroR
Date Posted: August 22 2017 at 14:35
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPJCbG2dfoA" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPJCbG2dfoA I made a cover of the harmonica solo in 'Refuge'. What do you think??
------------- Visit my blog: https://doyouevenriff.net/ (progrock theory, riffs, reviews)
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 23 2017 at 01:41
Yep Steven hasn't gone ''pop'' just yet. Agree with much of what's been said although I've only listened once which is not going to give me a definitive opinion on it just yet.
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Posted By: nfnnfn
Date Posted: August 23 2017 at 09:32
It would have been very nice to have another genre in progarchives for PROGRESSIVE POP. I heard Steven himself likes to consider his new album as prog pop too.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 23 2017 at 10:02
nfnnfn wrote:
It would have been very nice to have another genre in progarchives for PROGRESSIVE POP.I heard Steven himself likes to consider his new album as prog pop too. | Progressive pop is indeed a genre (circa '66-'67 Sounds Sounds, Revolver, etc.) but is not a sub genre of rock and will not be listed in PA. And God knows, I've tried.
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: August 23 2017 at 11:48
My youngest son purchased the CD - The packaging is very professional I must say - I will give it a spin why not? The son said that only "Refuge" was any good on playing it today. We shall see. I think that I will probably listen to my new Par Lindh CD "Time Mirror" first though......expensive purchase at 20euros.....But towards a good cause I think.
------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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Posted By: ColonelClaypool
Date Posted: August 25 2017 at 03:49
I've listened to the whole thing 5-6 times now, and to me there's three very good tracks on the album, To The Bone, The Same Asylum As Before and Detonation. Additionally, Refuge is pretty decent. The rest of the songs, apart from Permanating, all feel very samey and a little bland, I can't say they've made much of an impression on me at all.
People Who Eat Darkness would fit right in on In Absentia, which is one of my least favourite PT albums (behind Deadwing and The Incident).
Permanating, on the other hand, is something else entirely, I still haven't figured out if I love it or hate it. It's definitely very catchy though.
------------- With magic, you can turn a frog into a prince.
With science, you can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with.
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: August 28 2017 at 09:37
I haven't received my preorder deluxe version yet. I'm old fashion to the point, I refuse to listen to any singles or YouTube until after I hear the entire album. I suppose I'll probably like To the Bone since that's my SW-Porcupine Tree history.
I wouldn't be worried about Steven selling out. Next time Wilson will strike out in a different direction.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 28 2017 at 09:54
ColonelClaypool wrote:
I've listened to the whole thing 5-6 times now, and to me there's three very good tracks on the album, To The Bone, The Same Asylum As Before and Detonation. Additionally, Refuge is pretty decent. The rest of the songs, apart from Permanating, all feel very samey and a little bland, I can't say they've made much of an impression on me at all.
| Wilson does exude the feeling of being samey in his work, no matter the album. Perhaps his British reserve is showing. 
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: August 28 2017 at 10:36
To my ears, it is an average-to-decent crossover prog album with its many ups and downs. Uneven would be the best word to describe it. Compositions are well executed but not so convincing.
I find it rather "flat" at times, quite exciting in others, notably in the longest, more elaborate tracks. I am sure it will sell many more copies compared to his previous ones; the main reason is the promotion and the fact that it is quite more accessible than anything he has done.
It's got the "I am the new Peter Gabriel" tag written all over it and that is not necessarily a bad thing as it may draw more interest to the prog rock scene.
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: August 28 2017 at 11:36
^I thought that Midge Ure was supposed to be the new Peter Gabriel with Breathe. Or was it Sting? I forget.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: August 28 2017 at 12:21
Both too old for this era 
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: August 28 2017 at 12:36
Had a listen together with an old friend of mine as we both almost simultaneously got into Swilson. I kinda dig the poppish direction but I don't quite get the folks claiming this to be a whole new sound and style. Like others I hear Stupid Dream 2.0 coming out the speakers, which isn't a bad thing at all...it just doesn't qualify as something wholly new inside Steven's oevre which, again, is alright to these ears as long as the quality is there. I am still waiting on my copy to arrive and music always has the power to change your perception of it once you really start digging into it. The emo Blue Man Group cover I could do without though 
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: August 29 2017 at 05:31
The last track is best on spin one. No track that stands out and you think that it may be worth a second spin. It's commercial , but is it pop - i'm not a good judge as I don't listen to much music on the radio as I listen to talk-sport. It's a long way from the raven - that's for sure, and I then listened to the Par Lindh and that was definitely symphonic prog. S. Wilson made the sun-newspaper being compared with Ed Sheeran - Again - not sure I have heard anything by such a commercially successful "superstar" - well not by choice anyway. Looks like Mr Wilson may make a bob-or-two from his new release - good luck to him.
------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 29 2017 at 05:58
I was surprised to see Wilson on BBC Breakfast last week talking about the album and having to explain to the BBC mooks what prog rock was. He's been described - although I don't know by who, perhaps the BBC - as the king of prog rock.
A dubious title.
What I've heard of this album it sounds ok, fairly accessable. Not prog rock IMO, but by no means actual pop.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: August 29 2017 at 23:57
BBC Breakfast eh? I reckon Mr Wilson - would be capable of producing a long symphonic prog concept that would replicate and rival those of the mid 70's - But i'm sure that such a suggestion might frighten him more than if I had just suggested that he'd ingested Ricin.... He tried to distance himself from symphonic prog - even though he utilised its renewed popularity to sell Raven and Hand...cannot. I wonder who could be considered the king of prog rock? Any suggestions?
------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 30 2017 at 03:08
M27Barney wrote:
BBC Breakfast eh? I reckon Mr Wilson - would be capable of producing a long symphonic prog concept that would replicate and rival those of the mid 70's - But i'm sure that such a suggestion might frighten him more than if I had just suggested that he'd ingested Ricin.... He tried to distance himself from symphonic prog - even though he utilised its renewed popularity to sell Raven and Hand...cannot. I wonder who could be considered the king of prog rock? Any suggestions?
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I'm not sure, but it wouldn't be anyone contemporary.
I have a lot of respect for Steve Wilson. He's a talented and prolific musician, I just lost interest in PT and his other work some time ago. I need to revisit. I actually didn't realis he was quite so popular beyond the prog community. The BBC were saying his album could top the charts. I would never have guessed he was that popular or well known.
------------- Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 30 2017 at 21:34
Blacksword wrote:
M27Barney wrote:
BBC Breakfast eh? I reckon Mr Wilson - would be capable of producing a long symphonic prog concept that would replicate and rival those of the mid 70's - But i'm sure that such a suggestion might frighten him more than if I had just suggested that he'd ingested Ricin.... He tried to distance himself from symphonic prog - even though he utilised its renewed popularity to sell Raven and Hand...cannot. I wonder who could be considered the king of prog rock? Any suggestions?
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I'm not sure, but it wouldn't be anyone contemporary.
I have a lot of respect for Steve Wilson. He's a talented and prolific musician, I just lost interest in PT and his other work some time ago. I need to revisit. I actually didn't realis he was quite so popular beyond the prog community. The BBC were saying his album could top the charts. I would never have guessed he was that popular or well known. |
The one I can think best deserving of King of Prog would be King Crimson (or just Fripp himself). And they are not even my favourite band (though I do love them), but I can't think of anyone more deserving of that title, and that would be mostly be accepted by all. I still don't understand how he hasn't got the Prog God title on those Prog awards things... he should have been the first (and I actually like Wakeman more than Crimson).
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Posted By: micky
Date Posted: August 30 2017 at 21:48

------------- The Pedro and Micky Experience - When one no longer requires psychotropics to trip
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Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: August 30 2017 at 23:50
The best of prog is always collaborative? Either via composition, arrangement and musicianship? Unless you write the theme tune, sing the theme tune etc. etc. Fripp is up there on mount Prog with a Pantheon of others, Hackett, Howe etc.....
------------- Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......
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Posted By: infocat
Date Posted: August 31 2017 at 03:18
I passed over this album at the record store last week. I've barely even listened to his last one. Maybe I'll pick it up in a few years...
------------- -- Frank Swarbrick Belief is not Truth.
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: September 01 2017 at 14:09
Its quite poor. Ironically (or perhaps fittingly) there is very little if any 'meat on the bone' with this release. The only thing that's worth a second listen is the long track (whose name I dont' remember), everything else is various degrees of passible. Permantating is easily the worst thing he has released as etiher PT or his solo output.
Please for the love of all that is holy and beautiful let this album not win the collab poll at the end of the year.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: September 06 2017 at 10:29
Man With Hat wrote:
Please for the love of all that is holy and beautiful let this album not win the collab poll at the end of the year | well Big Big Train then? Motorpsycho? Mastodon? some obscure avant band?
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: September 06 2017 at 11:00
Prog-jester wrote:
Man With Hat wrote:
Please for the love of all that is holy and beautiful let this album not win the collab poll at the end of the year | well Big Big Train then? Motorpsycho? Mastodon? some obscure avant band? |
Which BBT? :p
but seriously, something at least in the realm of progressive rock would be nice.
Has the Motorpsycho album come out yet?
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: September 06 2017 at 15:53
Man With Hat wrote:
Has the Motorpsycho album come out yet? | Which? :p
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Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: September 13 2017 at 12:49
Hmmm.....I like the old PT albums especially Signify, Dream , Lightbulb, Absentia, ....and Raven and Hand....in the solo area....to me the new one is simply not as interesting and the songs just aren't as good. Just a thought...but could these be songs he's written over the past few years that really didn't fit on his other albums so he has now released them...? I don't think it's all that 'poppy' but it is less 'proggy'.
------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: September 13 2017 at 21:33
dr wu23 wrote:
Hmmm.....I like the old PT albums especially Signify, Dream , Lightbulb, Absentia, ....and Raven and Hand....in the solo area....to me the new one is simply not as interesting and the songs just aren't as good. Just a thought...but could these be songs he's written over the past few years that really didn't fit on his other albums so he has now released them...?I don't think it's all that 'poppy' but it is less 'proggy'. |
As far as I understand, that was the idea of 4 1/2, to get out the material that hadn't found it's way into the previous albums.
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Posted By: iluvmarillion
Date Posted: September 15 2017 at 01:01
I think the trap is to isolate single tracks from the album and compare them to other things he has done and then to say that this is less progressive than that and this track isn't as strong as that track. The album needs to be taken as a whole and digested like a meal with entree, mail course and desert and washed down with a good wine. I mean, if you take an album like Insurgentes, there is nothing as good as Harmony Korine on To The Bone. Yet to me, To The Bone is clearly the superior album (accepting that plenty of people will disagree with me).
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: September 19 2017 at 18:14
I've heard Bone 15 times. I like it. From an objective viewpoint Bone is less than Grace, Raven, or Erase.
However, my subjective self rates Bone a bottom top ten 2017 album....so far-
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Posted By: PhideauxFan
Date Posted: September 20 2017 at 03:22

Steven Wilson: To The Bone (UK-2017). Good, good ! (17/20) http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=54574" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=54574 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nssJ6NXndU4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nssJ6NXndU4
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 20 2017 at 04:29
It's weird. A new Steven Wilson release used to spark excitement in me but this is the first time ever where I find myself feeling somewhat indifferent. I don't blame Steven, he's a cool chap, I have just found so many other new artists that I dig plus the ever growing avalanche of new stuff to check out. Then again maybe I just got enough PT and Wilson in my collection already. Fact of the matter is that while I mildly enjoyed it the few times I span Bone, I don't see myself reaching for it anytime soon. I'd love to see what Steven would come up with after say a 2 year hiatus - spending his time on a beach somewhere with a couple of cool chaps (possibly musicians/zookeepers/magicians/experimental chefs) drinking wine and smoking reefer with the local sirens. Sure I think Neil has a point when he says 'it's better to burn out than to fade away' but sometimes you do need some fuel to get the fire going.
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: September 21 2017 at 14:38
Man With Hat wrote:
Its quite poor. Ironically (or perhaps fittingly) there is very little if any 'meat on the bone' with this release. The only thing that's worth a second listen is the long track (whose name I dont' remember), everything else is various degrees of passible. Permantating is easily the worst thing he has released as etiher PT or his solo output.
Please for the love of all that is holy and beautiful let this album not win the collab poll at the end of the year.
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Agreed
I'm not sure Steven's latest will even make my list although I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of modern prog admittedly 
I'd probably put Caligula's Horse latest out top at the moment . It must be time for an Aussie band to win the poll. I'm routing for it as long as England retain the ashes 
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Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: September 21 2017 at 15:20
I think it may be one of the first times where Wilson doesn't steal the top spot. His one shot will be all those folks who haven't heard more than 8 new albums...yet somehow they've always managed to pick up Steven's newest release
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: September 21 2017 at 16:39
The more I've listened to it, the more I'm convinced that it's not very special at all. Despite two or three great tracks, it's just a bunch of reliable alt-rock pieces that have occasionally poppier moments, but it's faaaaar away from the `pop' description it was being sold as. There's nothing outright bad on it, and it's certainly an easy surface listen, but....not much more than that.
In fact, I'd have been more excited for it if it genuinely was a PROPER pop album that actually had Steven step out of his comfort zone....because for all the press release hype and comparisons, `comfortable' describes the album perfectly.
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Posted By: Daysbetween
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 04:47
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
The more I've listened to it, the more I'm convinced that it's not very special at all. Despite two or three great tracks, it's just a bunch of reliable alt-rock pieces that have occasionally poppier moments, but it's faaaaar away from the `pop' description it was being sold as. There's nothing outright bad on it, and it's certainly an easy surface listen, but....not much more than that.
In fact, I'd have been more excited for it if it genuinely was a PROPER pop album that actually had Steven step out of his comfort zone....because for all the press release hype and comparisons, `comfortable' describes the album perfectly. |
Agree with your views. I bought the album on vinyl expecting something a bit different but was left rather disappointed. It's an ok album which I have played quite a few times in case it was a grower but I doubt it will make my top 10 for the year while Prog magazine has it at No.1!
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Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 14:00
A steady enough album - not his best, but a good enough listen - even if it flows over me a little too easily. Similar to the 'indie' PT style of 'Stupid Dream' and 'Lightbulb Sun' - where I remember Steven tried to distance himself from the prog label, as he seems to have tried with this one. Less proggy, more poppy - but no betrayal of his past either.
However, how the Prog Magazine critics managed to get it to No. 1 in the 2017 poll, is a bit of a head-scratcher for me. A lot of albums hit home much better - including Anathema's 'The Optimist' and BBT's 'Grimspound' amongst many others. Still a bit too much of a love in between all concerned when Mr Wilson is concerned at Prog magazine (Mr Ewing's review and the wall-to-wall coverage in that issue - smacked a little if desperation at times). Hoping he can live up to the hype more with the next one - he really has a prog epic inside him somewhere!
------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
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Posted By: Mellotron Storm
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 14:37
aapatsos wrote:
To my ears, it is an average-to-decent crossover prog album with its many ups and downs. Uneven would be the best word to describe it. Compositions are well executed but not so convincing.
I find it rather "flat" at times, quite exciting in others, notably in the longest, more elaborate tracks. I am sure it will sell many more copies compared to his previous ones; the main reason is the promotion and the fact that it is quite more accessible than anything he has done.
It's got the "I am the new Peter Gabriel" tag written all over it and that is not necessarily a bad thing as it may draw more interest to the prog rock scene.
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It's not that different from what he's done in the past but the word you used "flat" is for me a good description. I feel it's an average album and I'm a Steven Wilson/ Porcupine Tree fanboy and I was actually looking forward to him going into a poppier direction because I thought he would succeed at it, but I feel he didn't. Some great music on here though but overall for me a 3 star album.
------------- "The wind is slowly tearing her apart"
"Sad Rain" ANEKDOTEN
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 18:55
In regards to the shortest and most direct answer possible - The so called prestigious `Prog Awards' for that dreary glossy magazine always gets awarded to the most `vanilla' (read safe and bland) of prog-related albums....aimed to appeal to readers who only like the more straight-forward of English-sung prog. The most recent Anathema, Steven Wilson, Marillion and Big Big Train accolades are all fine examples of that.
If you're looking to Prog Magazine to be told what is the most exciting music being put out in the modern prog scene....you need to get out a bit more and explore some REALLY exciting music 
And that's coming from someone who is actually a fan of those bands!
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 19:53
PS - Sorry for paying out those albums and artists, I know they really resonate with a lot of people and many adore their albums...
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Posted By: nfnnfn
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 20:01
What do you suggest a person like me that I can read and learn more about the best and proggiest albums of the year? I know I can always check progarchives and go to the "Top 2017 Albums" page, but is there also a better magazine than prog magazine? I don't mind to pay and subscribe
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Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: December 17 2017 at 21:37
Sorry, Amir, you'll have to excuse my rather snooty and dismissive post, it was a bit rude of me.
I understand that magazine is very popular and it's probably quite the miracle that we have a magazine like that currently being published. Hell, I've even had quotes from my reviews pop up in ads in the magazine many times!
But I guess I just find much more excitement in the various Italian and French groups, or the prog-electronic artists or the psych/spacerock/Krautrock stuff than I do many of the more high-profile English speaking ones that get given constant coverage in it. The magazine also generally highlights only the English speaking stuff, although I suppose I do understand that. I just think a lot of people miss out on some amazing music because they dismiss it simply because it's not in English, when the magazine could be drawing more attention to them 
Sorry for my rant too, I'm sure I made one or two decent points in there....kind of!
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Posted By: Booba Kastorsky
Date Posted: December 30 2017 at 15:20
Squonk19 wrote:
A steady enough album - not his best, but a good enough listen - even if it flows over me a little too easily. Similar to the 'indie' PT style of 'Stupid Dream' and 'Lightbulb Sun' - where I remember Steven tried to distance himself from the prog label, as he seems to have tried with this one. Less proggy, more poppy - but no betrayal of his past either.
However, how the Prog Magazine critics managed to get it to No. 1 in the 2017 poll, is a bit of a head-scratcher for me. A lot of albums hit home much better - including Anathema's 'The Optimist' and BBT's 'Grimspound' amongst many others. Still a bit too much of a love in between all concerned when Mr Wilson is concerned at Prog magazine (Mr Ewing's review and the wall-to-wall coverage in that issue - smacked a little if desperation at times). Hoping he can live up to the hype more with the next one - he really has a prog epic inside him somewhere! |
You echoed my opinion about this album. However, I believe both Stupid Dream and especially Lightbulb Sun are stronger from songwriting quality view. I can't recall any really weak songs on Lightbulb Sun, while in my opinion, half of the songs on TTB are weak. As songs, not as prog "objects", if you know what I mean. And yes, I was so shocked when I saw that critics (!) voted for it. This year brought many womderful albums, and many of them were not even mentioned by the magazine. Although I politely disagree with you about Anathema: in my humble opinion what they play is not prog at all, and their songwriting is not good.
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Posted By: Booba Kastorsky
Date Posted: December 30 2017 at 15:53
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
The so called prestigious `Prog Awards' for that dreary glossy magazine always gets awarded to the most `vanilla' (read safe and bland) of prog-related albums....aimed to appeal to readers who only like the more straight-forward of English-sung prog. The most recent Anathema, Steven Wilson, Marillion and Big Big Train accolades are all fine examples of that.
If you're looking to Prog Magazine to be told what is the most exciting music being put out in the modern prog scene....you need to get out a bit more and explore some REALLY exciting music 
And that's coming from someone who is actually a fan of those bands!  |
Excellent observation! I'm a long time subscriber of this magazine, and I'm not 100% happy about it. They have their "inner circle" or "court" :) bands and musicians they like and promote: Fairport Convention (?), Anathema, Amplifier, Von Hertzen Bothers, Mogwai, Katatonia, Enslaved, Big Big Train, Pineapple Thief, Mostly Autumn, etc. And naturally Steven Wilson. You can be sure that anything issued by those bands or their members will receive full cover by the magazine. Not that those bands are bad, but... How do I say that in politically correct way? Most of them are not exactly what I think prog is, and I just don't get it why they deserve so much attention. So, yes, "prog mainstream" rules, just like anywhere else. And the "critic choice" reflects it very well! How Bent Knee made it there to the top 18 is a little wonder :) Anyway, they definitely do not give you an entire picture of what's going on in prog. They're very UK-centric, but hey, they are British! That's why I'm also subscriber of Progression Magazine, that editor is my fellow New Englander. Guess what? His magazine is American-centric, i.e. there you can read of US or Canadian musicians that Prog Magazine ignores :) Although in my humble opinion, Progression is less American-centric than Progression is UK-centric. For instance, articles about Italian or South American bands are much more common there than in Prog. Prog Archives gives you the truest picture of what's going on in prog, because out Top lists based on wide verity of opinions from different part of the planet. And that's why our lists consist of bands and albums that never appear in glossy magazines, probably because they are not "comfortable" enough for prog mainstream :)
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Posted By: Squonk19
Date Posted: December 30 2017 at 17:28
Good points made by recent posters. Prog Magazine can be rather safe and cover the same bands - but it has helped give a focus to prog here in the UK that was sadly lacking, so it remains a favourite read of mine. However, thanks to PA and forums like this and you guys, a lot of lesser known bands from other countries do seep through! Long live prog and its incredibly wide 'church'.
------------- “Living in their pools, they soon forget about the sea.”
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: January 11 2018 at 16:56
nfnnfn wrote:
What do you suggest a person like me that I can read and learn more about the best and proggiest albums of the year? I know I can always check progarchives and go to the "Top 2017 Albums" page, but is there also a better magazine than prog magazine? I don't mind to pay and subscribe  |
I think you're doing fine nfnnfn. The best test is an ear test. Spend free time cruising- http://progstreaming.nl/
Keep up with the thread closest to your heart. I like RPI, I always read "Modern Italian" for new fresh RPI albums. Found a bunch! Since you read the front page, find reviewers whose taste coincide with yours. PM them and ask questions. Most reviewers are exceptionally helpful. Last but not least, use the album search to your advantage. Suppose your favorite sub genre is modern "jazz/rock fusion", ( check out the top albums from 2000-2018 in Jazz/rock fusion.) Listen on YouTube. Read the Jazz Rock Fusion Collaborators reviews and PM them.
I like books and magazines. However the best info is on Prog sites like this one and Prog blogs. There are several Prog Rock YouTube reviewers too. They always provide background, opinions, and info on the albums they review.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 14 2018 at 02:39
richardh wrote:
Man With Hat wrote:
Its quite poor. Ironically (or perhaps fittingly) there is very little if any 'meat on the bone' with this release. The only thing that's worth a second listen is the long track (whose name I dont' remember), everything else is various degrees of passible. Permantating is easily the worst thing he has released as etiher PT or his solo output.
Please for the love of all that is holy and beautiful let this album not win the collab poll at the end of the year.
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Agreed
I'm not sure Steven's latest will even make my list although I don't exactly have my finger on the pulse of modern prog admittedly 
I'd probably put Caligula's Horse latest out top at the moment . It must be time for an Aussie band to win the poll. I'm routing for it as long as England retain the ashes  |
well I was so wrong on many accounts not least that I have included it on my list 
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 15 2018 at 14:45
Listening to Detonation at the moment. Could this be one the best tracks he's ever done?? (PT included) . Just effing brilliant.
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Posted By: condor
Date Posted: January 20 2018 at 05:28
I think it's awesome; sounds like God made it.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: January 22 2018 at 15:04
I though he did
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Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: January 22 2018 at 18:28
The album is what I would describe as "popgressive".
------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: January 22 2018 at 19:15
It's just as bad as its ever been.
------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Posted By: nfnnfn
Date Posted: January 22 2018 at 22:56
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
Sorry, Amir, you'll have to excuse my rather snooty and dismissive post, it was a bit rude of me.
I understand that magazine is very popular and it's probably quite the miracle that we have a magazine like that currently being published. Hell, I've even had quotes from my reviews pop up in ads in the magazine many times!
But I guess I just find much more excitement in the various Italian and French groups, or the prog-electronic artists or the psych/spacerock/Krautrock stuff than I do many of the more high-profile English speaking ones that get given constant coverage in it. The magazine also generally highlights only the English speaking stuff, although I suppose I do understand that. I just think a lot of people miss out on some amazing music because they dismiss it simply because it's not in English, when the magazine could be drawing more attention to them 
Sorry for my rant too, I'm sure I made one or two decent points in there....kind of!  |
No, you are fine and thanks for the detailed answer. I totally agree with all that you said, I think I have to do my own research, for example through links listed on here: http://progarchives.com/Progressive_rock_discography_LINKS.asp
The problem is that it becomes more time consuming and perhaps I end up using PA system!
By the way, I love RPI genre ;)
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Posted By: nfnnfn
Date Posted: January 22 2018 at 23:10
Booba Kastorsky wrote:
So, yes, "prog mainstream" rules, just like anywhere else. And the "critic choice" reflects it very well! How Bent Knee made it there to the top 18 is a little wonder :) That's why I'm also subscriber of Progression Magazine, that editor is my fellow New Englander. Guess what? His magazine is American-centric, i.e. there you can read of US or Canadian musicians that Prog Magazine ignores :) Although in my humble opinion, Progression is less American-centric than Progression is UK-centric. For instance, articles about Italian or South American bands are much more common there than in Prog. Prog Archives gives you the truest picture of what's going on in prog, because out Top lists based on wide verity of opinions from different part of the planet. And that's why our lists consist of bands and albums that never appear in glossy magazines, probably because they are not "comfortable" enough for prog mainstream :) |
I think we need a new subgenre " Independent prog" :) I like your suggestion "Progression Magazine" I just opened the website and bookmarked it. The first impression is great! I am going to dig into that. In their website, they say they are the world’s longest-running print publication devoted exclusively to progressive rock and related subgenres. I thought Prog Magazine is the largest.
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Posted By: nfnnfn
Date Posted: January 22 2018 at 23:14
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I think you're doing fine nfnnfn. The best test is an ear test. Spend free time cruising- http://progstreaming.nl/
Keep up with the thread closest to your heart. I like RPI, I always read "Modern Italian" for new fresh RPI albums. Found a bunch! Since you read the front page, find reviewers whose taste coincide with yours. PM them and ask questions. Most reviewers are exceptionally helpful. Last but not least, use the album search to your advantage. Suppose your favorite sub genre is modern "jazz/rock fusion", ( check out the top albums from 2000-2018 in Jazz/rock fusion.) Listen on YouTube. Read the Jazz Rock Fusion Collaborators reviews and PM them.
I like books and magazines. However the best info is on Prog sites like this one and Prog blogs. There are several Prog Rock YouTube reviewers too. They always provide background, opinions, and info on the albums they review. |
I really liked the http://progstreaming.nl/ wow! I listened to 3 albums by random and they were mind-blowing. Thanks for the great suggestion. I couldn't find the "Modern Italian", can you give me the link? Thanks.
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Posted By: nfnnfn
Date Posted: January 22 2018 at 23:21
I listened to Steven's latest album many times. At the end, I was going to give it a 3 out of 5 stars. Then I noticed that I had missed the 2nd CD. Wow! There were 3 tracks in the 2nd CD that are really great IMO and should have been in the 1st CD in lieu of Permanating. So, my final rate would be 3+0.5=3.5 and the 0.5 is because of the 2nd CD.
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