Prog as a musicians music?
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Prog Polls
Forum Description: Create polls on topics related to progressive music
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=110746
Printed Date: March 10 2025 at 06:00
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Prog as a musicians music?
Posted By: WaterSnake
Subject: Prog as a musicians music?
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 09:27
|
I'm classifying a musician as someone who can play beyond what is usually considered beginner level, so if you're starting out please answer no. The poll will be used as research in my dissertation. Thanks to all who answer. - Jac
|
Replies:
Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 10:01
|
yes ------------- Dig me...But don't...Bury me I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect. |
Posted By: mlkpad14
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 10:41
|
Prog is a musician's music, but that's only because musicians have truly dove into music. It only makes sense that way, right? ------------- https://gamecrazyprofessional.weebly.com/ |
Posted By: WaterSnake
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 11:35
| Yeah, I think so, I'm thinking in terms of listen-ability, I theorize that musicians find it more natural to listen to prog because their used to following multiple lines at once and can therefor follow complex counterpoint easier. As well as appreciating the composition and virtuosity of the players easier as they understand partly what goes into making something as thoughtful as progressive music. |
Posted By: mechanicalflattery
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 13:26
| The only concern here is whether you have a method of separating those who love prog because they're musicians and those who became musicians because they loved prog. I'd bet many of the musicians on this forum were introduced to prog at a younger age (many here attest to having heard their first prog album during childhood) and were then inspired to study music. At what rate would trained musicians, with an ear for composition, come to appreciate prog if they had never heard a single note of the genre before? |
Posted By: Barbu
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 14:11
|
Absolutely not. ------------- |
Posted By: Dopeydoc
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 14:12
I agree. The people I know that like prog are musicians. The others stay on "simple" prog such as Pink Floyd, Supertramp or the last two IQ albums. And Blackfield  |
WaterSnake wrote:Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 17:11
Yes. I play the bass and sing, so let's start a PA prog band.  ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: WaterSnake
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 17:38
| I play guitar and can sing bass harmonies |
Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 20:18
|
No, it's music listeners music ------------- Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV. https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325 |
Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 20:20
Depends on what they listen to prior (as it's a case by case basis), I believe if someone gets familiar with any genre they'll find stuff they love...even country music ------------- Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV. https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325 |
Posted By: micky
Date Posted: April 12 2017 at 20:41
|
yeah... but as far as your research.. don't count me... prog is one of many musical genres I love...and prog isn't even my #1 I suppose...and never was interested in playing it.. nor particularly interesting in dissecting it. You'll find just as good if not more skilled instrumentalists in country and bluegrass, now those are some badass hard core musos... and pop out there is far more complex than much of what is celebrated here on this site. Dione anyone.. probably only a handful of singers in the world could sing what she did. Bacharach was a f**king genius. |
Posted By: Mascodagama
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 01:19
|
Posted By: Flight123
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 03:49
|
Agreed - you just need ears. Proficiency is not a requisite for prog - it's more to do with attitude, vision, etc. - like most genres, really. Prog is not 'special' in that respect.
|
Posted By: Rosscoe
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 05:24
|
Prog is in a sense a bit elitist. It is produced (generally) only by particularly skilled musicians, who are keen to demonstrate a high level of proficiency or even virtuosity. Therefore, sometimes what they come up with is easier to appreciate by fellow musicians. Many non-musicians simply cannot cope with unusual time signatures and are immediately turned off. SO I would hypothesize that a higher proportion of prog fans are competent musicians compared to fans of generic pop music. But there are counter arguments. If you can craft prog music that is beautiful or memorable enough you can entrance non-musicians at more or less the same rate. And there are plenty of talented musicians I know who find unusual time signatures and diminished chords and the like pretentious and unnecessary. But I still feel that prog attracts a disproportionate quantity of musicians as fans
|
Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 06:22
|
Sadly, no. Does frustrated musician count? ------------- Welcome to the middle of the film. |
Posted By: Jeffro
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 07:33
 I was going to ask if two years of trumpet 40 years ago counts.------------- We all dwell in an amber subdomain, amber subdomain, amber subdomain. My face IS a maserati |
Posted By: O666
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 08:00
| Yes. |
Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 08:08
|
Not at all. I have many friends who love progressive music and couldn't carry a tune with a bucket, however being a musician certainly allows one to explore more technical and adventurous music for sure -------------  https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy |
Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 08:19
| More that musicians music, is music with the intent to be listened to, not necessarily appropriate for dancing, like most of the common, popular music that most people prefer. |
Posted By: maryes
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 18:19
I agree !!!
|
Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: April 13 2017 at 21:33
| I'm not but I like music that is interesting and not cookie cutter----although a perfect 3 minute song is very hard to do----and I love a song with strong steady rhythm |
Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: April 16 2017 at 12:27
|
Not necessarily. Although Prog tends to be musically interesting, I know several good musicians who do not enjoy. I myself am a musician but not as good as the guys I mention here. I also know many non-musicians who enjoy Prog. None of these people are all-Prog or no-Prog all the time. It is a matter of taste and aesthetics. I will say that an understanding of music leads to an understanding of the complexities and subtleties found in Prog but this does not always translate to enjoyment. I also just read to the actual question. Yes, I am a musician, but I voted no because I do not think Prog is merely musicians music. The header and the poll question are two different issues. ------------- The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty" |
Posted By: 2dogs
Date Posted: April 16 2017 at 23:04
I tried a few instruments but failed, mainly because I wanted to do my own thing  .------------- "There is nothing new except what has been forgotten" - Marie Antoinette |
Posted By: WaterSnake
Date Posted: April 17 2017 at 13:31
You don't seem to understand the purpose of this. I'm trying to do some simple research to see the percentage of prog listeners whom are musicians and comparing that with the fanbases of other genres, that doesn't mean I think that prog is for musicians and that non-musicians can't listen to it. The title was just to get peoples attention, and to make conversation in the comments, I thought people wouldn't have trouble separating that and the painfully simple question presented to them, but clearly I was wrong. I encourage anyone to give prog a chance, there are no requirements for someone to enjoy experiencing something, I merely think that those who train their musical mind potentially have a better chance of not being overwhelmed by the onslaught of genius that is prog.
|
Posted By: A_Flower
Date Posted: April 18 2017 at 07:51
|
No. I play flute in my high school band, but I am not a really super talented musician. I listen to prog all the time everyday! And as questioned earlier in this forum, for me, I got into playing music because I loved prog. Also, if you were to consider prog being a musician's genre, then you would probably have to do the same with classical being the parent musician. I know plenty of people who enjoy classical but don't play anything. As before-mentioned, prog is a music lover's genre rather then a musician's genre ------------- User Banned for this Post |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: April 20 2017 at 15:29
|
Yes. I had three periods. I studied guitar when I was in first grade and before I got interested in Prog. I was unsuccessful, probably due to my guitar being unplayable. (I just learned that Steve Hackett had a similar experience, corrected when he got ahold of a nylon guitar). I studied guitar heavily in my late teens and throughout my 20s with a great deal of success. I got quite good. I played something perhaps akin to endless Space Rock improvisations. I quit cold turkey eventually, because it never evolved into a vocation and drained time away from other things. I took it up again several years ago. I am quite advanced at this point. I was already a Prog fan before guitar really took hold. However, I think it affected what and how I got excited about as I sought out other Prog. I had no interest in Jazz until I got good with guitar in my 20s. I was actively disinterested in Classical until I picked up guitar again in my mid-life period. Now I regularly listen to and enjoy Classical music. ------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: May 02 2017 at 08:03
|
I ama music yes ***link below*** ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: UselessPassion
Date Posted: May 21 2017 at 17:13
|
To answer the first question, I'm a musician. Classical piano training from age 5, recently took up drums. I've been composing as a serious hobby for about fifteen years. Honest assessment: I'm still terrible at all of it. As for the second implied question, anyone can learn to appreciate progressive music but I believe musicians are more likely to latch onto it readily. As for why this might be, musicians are taught that they must be willing to accept constant challenge, discomfort and the unexpected in order to grow and find their musical identity. It makes sense that musicians would seek out and devour prog by the boatload because they've been trained to favor novelty as part of the learning process and subsequently derive pleasure from the unknown. Prog is filled with novelty, left, right, front and center, sometimes for no other reason than 'why not?' Some acts are essentially puzzle boxes (don't call it 'experimental' for nothing) which can be really fun for aspiring musicians to get into, if only because it's fun to analyze and unravel complex patterns. Progressive music is great intellectual w**kery, basically, and the poll seems to agree that many passionate followers of it are musicians rather than non, although admittedly not by a wide margin. I also recall reading a study (likely flawed, interesting nonetheless) indicating that OCD occurs at a much higher rate in musicians than non. Irrational obsession may play a key part in lending someone the patience to sit through a 30 minute song with no melody that may or may not be about the fall of Atlantis or a time traveling alien messiah with a glowing dong. I'm definitely not saying non-musicians can't enjoy prog authentically. Many of them do for a number of reasons. Exposure in childhood may have simply formed a preference complexity and the unexpected. But a musician, good, bad or ugly will always be primed to appreciate most music faster than a non-musician by virtue of education. Doesn't make us superior, doesn't make prog fans 'smarter' or any other ego affirming nonsense. Just means it seems to naturally resonate with people who have a musical education. I'll be quiet now. Edited for length and pretension. Smoked too much grass, got lost, forgot to answer question, etc. ------------- [Hyperreflective paradigm breaking profundity goes here] |
Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: May 21 2017 at 18:13
|
I wish. |
Posted By: Thatfabulousalien
Date Posted: May 21 2017 at 18:35
|
Prog as music ------------- Classical music isn't dead, it's more alive than it's ever been. It's just not on MTV. https://www.soundcloud.com/user-322914325 |
Posted By: Kepler62
Date Posted: May 21 2017 at 19:33
I can play and sing Lucky Man, The Wizard ( Uriah heep ) and do a good fake version of No Lullaby by JT on guitar. Depends on the song. Not all progressive rock is all that complex.  |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 21 2017 at 19:45
|
This poll and the initial message from the OP asks two different questions. I’ll also rephrase one of the questions. Question #1: Can prog music only be appreciated by musicians? The answer is a resounding “NO”! I have several friends who aren’t musicians that love progressive music. As with anything in music, it boils down to the individual listener and what they’re drawn to and get the most enjoyment out of. Question #2: Are you a musician? Yep, I’ve been playing the guitar for 20+ years. I started off playing percussion in the school band but was always interested in the guitar early on. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 21 2017 at 23:39
------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 21 2017 at 23:44
Thanks, it’s great to see you’re still kicking around on here, too, HackettFan. I know this question will cause a disturbance in the thread, but what did you think of the new Hackett album, Night Sirens? ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 22 2017 at 22:04
------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 22 2017 at 22:26
Thanks for your feedback, HackettFan. I’m certainly looking forward to finally buckling down and listening to Night Sirens. How’s that album Summer Storms and Rocking Rivers? I just bought that DVD The Man, The Music. Really looking forward to watching it. Of the more recent Hackett albums, I have to say that Beyond the Shrouded Horizon really knocked me out. I haven’t really given Wolflight much of a chance, but I’m going to be giving it another listen as soon as I hear Night Siren. ------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: hellogoodbye
Date Posted: May 23 2017 at 00:15
| In the old days, a musician was a composer. Prog is certainly a music of composer. |
Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: May 23 2017 at 07:57
------------- A curse upon the heads of those who seek their fortunes in a lie. The truth is always waiting when there's nothing left to try. - Colin Henson, Jade Warrior (Now) |
Posted By: Mirror Image
Date Posted: May 27 2017 at 08:11
I re-listened to Wolflight a few nights ago and just turned it off. I couldn’t get through it. This album just doesn’t have the same kind of inspiration so many of his other albums have had in the past. I haven’t listened to Night Siren yet, but I probably will over the weekend. I did revisit Defector a few nights ago and really enjoyed a lot even though I never really thought badly of the album. The only 70s album of his that didn’t grab me was Please Don’t Touch, although the second half of the album is much better than the first IMHO. Icarus Ascending has to be one of the greatest closers I’ve heard.
------------- “Music is enough for a lifetime but a lifetime is not enough for music.” - Sergei Rachmaninov |
Posted By: Argo2112
Date Posted: July 20 2017 at 14:31
|
I do think a lot of musicians like prog for all the nuances and complexities. It takes everything up to the next level and gives the performers the opportunity to truly showcase their talents. I've been a drummer for over 30 years & most of my favorite players are prog musicians. However I know many non-musicians that love & appreciate prog rock. |
Posted By: Slartibartfast
Date Posted: July 20 2017 at 18:42
------------- Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
|
Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: March 28 2018 at 18:24
|
It shouldn't matter, honestly. ------------- "I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
Posted By: Mortte
Date Posted: March 28 2018 at 22:23
| I have played instruments almost all of my life, but never called myself a musician. And about musical skills, I have always thought creativity is much more important than musical skills. With creativity and bad skills you can create interesting music, with good skills but no creativity you can´t. |