Will you do me a favour and ruthlessly critique my
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Category: Other music related lounges
Forum Name: Music and Musicians Exchange
Forum Description: Talk with and get feedback from other musicians on the site
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=109611
Printed Date: December 02 2024 at 13:31
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Topic: Will you do me a favour and ruthlessly critique my
Posted By: benrosemberg
Subject: Will you do me a favour and ruthlessly critique my
Date Posted: December 07 2016 at 13:33
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Hi guys, General lurker, first time poster. Long story short, been in a band over a year now...we had the chance to open for Haken in Toronto back in September, and it was freakin' awesome. To keep the story concise, we basically find ourselves now trying to figure out what to do, where to take the band (not geographically, but more conceptually), etc. A big part of that decision involves finding out what people outside of our known group of friends and contacts think about it. This is where you come in A bunch of decisions seem to be up in the air, so we decided to go out there and get some feedback to address them and find out how best to move forth. So, with that in mind. Would you be so kind as to check out some of our stuff and let me know your honest thoughts? - 3 tunes up on bandcamp: http://astralbell.bandcamp.com/ - Video of one of those songs at our last show, this past Thursday: https://youtu.be/801wEdV2EZQ Really, be as brutally honest here as possible. Offended feelings is better than wasted time, so I rather hear some harsh truths now rather than keep investing time in the project. Please, really...let me have it; what do you think of the music? What do you think of the instrumentation? Guitar work? Drum work? Bass work? Keyboard work? Vocal work? What do you think of the production (it's demo quality, so not expecting too much there)? etc... Seriously, the more you have to say (bad or good, doesn't matter), the better! Thanks so much for your time, and I look forward to the feedback! PS Mods, if this post breaks rules, please go ahead and delete. Since this is more of a call for feedback than anything, I thought it would be ok. Please let me know otherwise. |
Replies:
Posted By: Kespuzzuo
Date Posted: December 07 2016 at 14:27
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Personal opinion 1) Don't use organs that get commonly used on prog. It says "progressive". A lot of people in here like these organs, but if you really want to experiment and bring fresh ideas to the table, you should pick synths that don't appear on prog commonly. 2) Try mashing your music with other genres. If your band makes a fusion of this music with other sub-genres you can get something new |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 07 2016 at 14:44
| I'm listening as I type this. Definitely not bad but I get a strong sense of "nothing I haven't heard before." That being said it is utterly important to be yourselves. Any criticism anyone makes can contain information you should listen to. However, you need to operate as a whole and part of that whole includes absorbing those influences and making them your own. I suggest as a band getting together and deciding(even discussing out loud if necessary)which bands in particular got you excited about prog music. Was it older stalwarts such as Genesis, Yes, Pink Floyd, King Crimson or even the prog era of Rush? Or was it the newer bands that got you excited such as Haken(who you opened up for)Riverside, Anathema, Big Big Train, Dream Theater or Porcupine Tree etc. Figure out who influenced you the most and what got you excited about prog. Then think about those recordings and get some musical ideas while not copying or trying to sound like them and think about how you will label yourselves(prog metal, heavy prog, neo etc). With that in mind decide who you want your audience to be? Will it be mostly the prog metal crowd? The same kinds of people(who mostly seem to be younger prog fans)who show up at Haken shows etc. Will you incorporate other elements such as indie, alternative, mainstream rock etc. The heavy sound has been done so you will want to consider trying something a bit different to stand out. The sound is good but there are so many bands who sound so similar that is likely you might get lost in the sauce so to speak. I'm not saying you should add saxophones, violins or whatever if that is not your cup of tea. The most important thing is to be who you are and go from there and try to develop your own identity. |
Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: December 07 2016 at 14:49
I can't really disagree with any of this. I didn't notice an in your face organ sound(at least not all the time). I actually hear a pretty good mixture of keys. Maybe mix up the guitar sound a little bit. You don't want every single track to crush you over the head or have a super gritty guitar sound(unless the guitarist happens to find that important). I'm not saying you shouldn't use distortion though but it just seems that so many modern prog bands use a heavy metal guitar sound that it borders on cliche.
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Kespuzzuo wrote:Posted By: Arno
Date Posted: December 07 2016 at 14:49
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Making music is never wasted time. Especially when it comes right from the heart. So my advice is 'follow your heart'. I've listened to your demos and I really like it a lot. The guitarwork is great and the female vocal work blends really well. I especially like the rough edge of her voice. The other bandmembers are a great contribution. The 2 longer compositions with a lot of variety and prog are the ones I like the most. I hope to hear more from you in the near future. |
Posted By: Upbeat Tango Monday
Date Posted: December 07 2016 at 14:57
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Hi there, Ben. I've listened to your demos. Supreme Silence is the song I enjoyed the most as a whole. Ayana's chorus reminded me of Madonna's "La Isla Bonita" (I fell in love with San Pedro)  That's all I'll say about it. Chrysalis has a good instrumental part from 6:20 onwards and it's, IMO, the section I liked the most for a few reasons: a bit of eastern influence in your guitar work and interesting keyboards. I think the lack of overlapping helped a lot. You need to work more on this. You know, there's nothing wrong with sonic assault, but you might need to let the music breathe a bit more, use silence as an instrument instead of releasing note after note and let people appreciate the little nuances of each instrument. This section nailed it, sorta. My two cents. Keep on rocking  ------------- Two random guys agreed to shake hands. Just Because. They felt like it, you know. It was an agreement of sorts...a random agreement. |
Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: December 07 2016 at 15:25
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Personally, I do find your music overly generic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, the music does not feel organic to me, nor does it breathe for me. Sometimes it's the spaces between the notes that are the most poignant, or the light touches that are barely perceptible at first -- those little moments that make the hairs stand on end. I also like music that creates a sense of anticipation -- what's around the corner, where is this adventure taking me, what can I expect, what surprises are in store? The music lacked a sense of mystery to me, and I wish the music would have taken me on a journey and had not felt forced to me, both from a composition standpoint and instrumentally. I would hope that you're passionate about the music, but I'm just not feeling it. It's important to study your craft, including learning to play and compose in as many styles of music as possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean that you should play as many styles as possible on an album. That said, I personally would like a lot more variation in terms of bringing in an influence of diverse styles of music, and more varied instrumentation. I'm not saying you should, but it could make it stand out more. On the other hand, a young metal crowd might boo if you have someone playing something on the cello reminiscent of Bach. But that's me, and I'm not a fan of metal. I would like to echo sentiments of doing your own thing. Follow your bliss. As long as you are making music you love then I think it comes through to certain audiences. I don't think that focus groups make good art, but then good art (a subjective term) does not necessarily lead to any commercial success. It's important to learn to emulate others, but then I think it important to come up with your own sound. Being too unique and experimental, though, can mean that you alienate potential listeners. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXcp9fYc6K4IKuxIZkenfvukL_Y8VBqzK" rel="nofollow - Duos for fave acts |
Posted By: dr wu23
Date Posted: December 08 2016 at 13:34
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I watched the you tube video......I like the sound, reminds me of mid and or latter day King Crimson and that's ok in my book....but the vocals just don't work for me. Her voice doesn't carry enough weight for that type of music and frankly she didn't sound that good as a singer. ------------- One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: December 09 2016 at 02:34
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Given that no musicians go off actually asking for criticism, I'd say that this smacks of being an advert. ;-) However, and speaking as a musician, not at all bad. ;-) The drums are too wooly and compressed. Generally the mix needs some equalisation. There's very little top end and virtually no middle. But not at all bad, gents, not at all bad. Ah, vocals. Nope, don't work for me, either. ------------- |
Posted By: Growingart
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 07:42
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The most important is that you follow your own ideas. Whatever they are. Then you will enjoy. About mix, you have already got some advices. Keep working on it and it will be fine with time. If you enjoy together as band, I would focus on that. Maybe some technical parts are not perfect, but it is better to work with band member who are acting together. If individuals are technically good in their musicianship, it will anyway not work out if the personal chemistry is not there. I like some parts of the vocals, but some parts need more work or to be adapted. ------------- Progressiv rock | IN EXPERIENCE PROJECT www.inexperienceproject.com www.youtube.com/inexperienceproject www.growingrecords.se |
Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 08:24
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Vocals are dreadful. I clicked off the video after about 30 seconds of that caterwauling. ------------- ...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
Posted By: Davesax1965
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 08:42
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Now we've done the OP a favour, could he do one for us and actually contribute to the forum instead of lurking with three posts ? ;-) It's an advert in disguise. ------------- |
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 08:44
^Don't worry. It's not working.  ------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State. |
Posted By: Terrapin Station
Date Posted: December 23 2016 at 11:15
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Overall, I like it, but trying to be super-picky, since otherwise it my comments wouldn't be helpful to you. These are some things I'd focus on if I were producing you: (1) I want to hear more adventurous/unusual harmonic and melodic content, especially on "Supreme Silence" ("Ayana" is far more interesting in this regard; "Chrysalis" is in between). There's plenty of sophistication in other elements, but I still get the sense of relatively conservative and intermediate "block chord"-based writing. In other words, it kind of has the vibe, in terms of the compositional skeleton, of someone plunking out more or less traditional diatonic chord progressions on a piano, where you play a block chord right on "1" of each bar and then plunk out some melody notes on top of it that are pretty much just the notes that were already in the chord, etc. (2) I also want to hear more of a push/pull, tension & release with the harmonic and melodic content. Part of it is that your cadences are so harmonically conservative--that just comes across as bland. But think, as a rough guide, of building to a series of climaxes, via relative dissonance and consonance, inventive voice-leading, etc., as if we're traversing a hilly landscape, up and down, of increasingly taller hills. You want some tension leading up to summits, with an "Ah--we've arrived!" moment, followed by relaxation, followed by the next hill's tension-building, etc. There should be some surprises in that, but you still want tension leading to those "Ah--we've arrived!" moments. "Ayana" also does better on this point, by the way. (3) Sections of longer pieces should be related to each other in this way, too. Sometimes it seems like you just have sections following one another because you wrote different sections and decided to stick them together. You want to shoot instead for sections feeling like they HAD to lead to each other. There's kind of a meandering feel to some of your sectional development. When you're writing, try to come up with sections that have a music-theoretical relationship to other sections. For example, base a section on an inversion of a melody or progression, or on a similar intervallic relationship--like for example, say that a chord progression goes up a minor third then down a fourth, then up a major third (so for example, in C, it might have C, Eb, Bb and D as roots). Well, try something like increasing all of those by a whole step. So C to F to Ab to E. That way it has the same shape as the first progression, but it's different. When you're creating sections in these ways, your ear is going to be the arbiter--it doesn't have to follow some exact pattern, and you don't want it to always follow a clear pattern--that ends up being mechanical-sounding. Change it so that it sounds good to you. But use the pattern to suggest the next part. This approach helps parts seem related to each other, because people intuitively recognize the abstract similarities. (4) "Ayana", despite its assets in other regards with respect to the above points, is very rhythmically sloppy at times with respect to folks locking in with each other. It seems to almost become a trainwreck a couple times, or, it has a bit of that "falling down the stairs (in time)" vibe. When you're rehearsing stuff like that, have everyone use the cleanest sounds they can, with no echo/reverb, timbres that are pretty much just square waves (so no delayed attacks or long releases), and concentrate on locking in which each other so that your line up more or less exactly on the nearest sixteenth note (or whatever it might be on a particular passage). Record it, preferably on something where you can play it back at half-speed, and then as critically as you can, assess whether everyone is hitting the same rhythmic divisions at the same time. After you've done that, then go back to using the sounds you want to use. "Chrysalis" also has this problem at times. (5) I don't at all like the melody on "Chrysalis". In my opinion, melodies should work in isolation, or they should be rewritten. When you write a melody, are you actually writing a series of notes on piano, guitar, or whatever you write on? If not, make sure you do that, or that you can at least play a melody you (or the singer) has come up with purely vocally. Then, first play it in isolation, monophonically that is, on a guitar or keyboard, with a simple, unprocessed sound. Is the melody interesting when you do this? Does it have its own tensions and releases? Its own series of climaxes? Then play it again, this time with simple 1-3 note block versions of the chords that will play under it. Does this make it even more interesting? Melodies should pass both tests in my opinion. Note that this doesn't imply that a melody has to be complex, and there are exceptions to the first part of the test. For example, take "One Note Samba". The verses aren't very interesting when we JUST play the melody--since it's basically an ostinato in the melody, but when we add a simple 1-3 note version of the harmony, the melody is very interesting. |
Posted By: Asund
Date Posted: January 04 2017 at 00:37
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Seems pretty cookie cutter. The vocal sections are so like the late 60s it's not funny. Cue lounge and dark lighting, and everyone on acid. I'd spend all day rubbin doan yer vocalist, though. Dayum. And a brunette. What more could one ask for....but brown eyes?
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Posted By: omphaloskepsis
Date Posted: January 04 2017 at 10:36
| An ersatz advertisement. A grab for unwarranted attention. You haven't logged in since you put up your creation. At least interact with those who showed enough curtesy to slog thru your stuff and comment. |