Dragon (New Zealand) - Crossover prog
Printed From: Progarchives.com
Category: Progressive Music Lounges
Forum Name: Suggest New Bands and Artists
Forum Description: Suggest, create polls, and classify new bands you would like included on Prog Archives
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=101611
Printed Date: March 03 2025 at 17:59
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Dragon (New Zealand) - Crossover prog
Posted By: GruvanDahlman
Subject: Dragon (New Zealand) - Crossover prog
Date Posted: March 09 2015 at 10:30
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Hi! I think that Dragon, from New Zealand, ought to be included into PA. Unfortunately only the first two albums ate progressive rock but still, I do feel they are worthy of an inclusion. Genre: crossover prog Country: New Zealand Dragon is a band that was formed in Auckland, New Zealand, in 1972. In 1975 they relocated to Sydney, Australia. Dragon was signed by the Vertigo label and released two albums in 1974 and 1975. The music of Dragon was progressive rock in the vein of Gnidrolog or Raw Material, sounding very british. After these two albums for Vertigo they continued to release music that was increasingly accessible, switching to pure pop and/or rock, in pursuit of chart success. The band achieved that, becoming a very succesful band in the late 70's and 80's. They are still active today. For fans of progressive music only the first two albums, Universal radio (1974) and Scenten gardens for the blind (1975), are of interest. Though not overly complex Dragon deliver a warm, keyboard dominated type of prog that is both complex, accessible and sophisticated with quite a heavy touch at times. Sound clips: http://youtu.be/YZg43jBZeRY http://youtu.be/PwFRUvVPXoo http://youtu.be/PH48DQFWj_o http://youtu.be/p7hwjAAmfXE http://youtu.be/C7mr9OzvTWM http://youtu.be/IdhAwZNo_30 Discography: Universal Radio (1974) Scented Gardens for the Blind (1975) Sunshine (1977) Running Free (1977) O Zambezi (1978) Power Play (1979) Body and the Beat (1984) Dreams of Ordinary Men (1986) Bondi Road (1989) Incarnations (1995) Sunshine to Rain (2006) Live 2008 (2009) Happy I Am (2009) It's all Too Beautiful (2011) Chase The Sun EP (2011) The Great Divide EP (2012) The Dragon Years, 40th Anniversary Collection (2012) Dragon - Trilogy [3-CD set - live recordings from 70's, 80's and present] (2014) ROSES (2014) Current members Todd Hunter - bass guitar, vocals (1972–1995, 2006–present) Mark Williams - vocals, guitar (2006–present) Bruce Reid - guitar (2006–present) Pete Drummond - drums, vocals, keyboards (2006–present) Former members Ray Goodwin - guitar, keyboards, vocals (1972–1976) Graeme Collins - vocals, piano (1972) Neil Reynolds - drums (1972) Neil Storey - drums (1972–1975; d. 1976) Ivan Thompson - vocals, keyboards (1973–1974) Marc Hunter - vocals (1973–1979, 1982–1997; d. 1998) Geoff Chunn - drums (1974) Robert Taylor - guitar (1974–1984) Paul Hewson - keyboards (1975–1985; d. 1985) Kerry Jacobson - drums (1976–1983) Richard Lee - vocals, guitar, violin (1979–1980) Billy Rogers - harmonica, saxophone, piano, vocals (1979) Alan Mansfield - keyboards (1982–1997) Terry Chambers - drums (1983–1985) Tommy Emmanuel - guitar (1985–1988, 1995) Don Miller-Robinson - guitar (1985) Doane Perry - drums (1985–1988) David Hirschfelder - keyboards (1987–1989) Peter Grimwood - guitar (1988) Lee Borkman - keyboards (1988–1989) John Watson - drums (1988–1989) Andy Sidari - samples (1989) Randall Waller - guitar (1989) Barton Price - drums (1989) Mike Caen - guitar (1989–1995, 1996–1997) Jeffrey Bartolomei - keyboards (1989–1996) Mitch Farmer - drums (1989) Rajan Kamahl - keyboards (1991–1993) Peter Northcote - guitar (1995) Ange Tsoitoudis - guitar (1996–1997) Dario Bortolin - bass (1996) Brad Ford - drums (1996) Mick O'Shea - drums (1996–1997) Billy Kervin - bass (1996–1997) Darren Percival - guest vocals (2007) Bernie Segedin - guest vocals (2007) |
Replies:
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: March 09 2015 at 10:34
Dragon (New Zealand) http://progfreak.com/Dragon-95437.html" rel="nofollow - http://progfreak.com/Dragon-95437.html?path=pa/recent" rel="nofollow -  Subscribe to RSS Feed
------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
(Atkingani)
(Windhawk)Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: March 11 2015 at 08:22
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Definite crossover for the first two albums. Alas... ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: kev rowland
Date Posted: March 14 2015 at 20:11
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Here in NZ we all love Dragon, along with bands such as Th' Dudes and Split Enz they are part of rock royalty from the 70's. But, I've only ever heard the much later material for which they became famous. Given that they were given a 3-1 rejection some six years ago, and have released nothing that could be deemed progressive since then, I don't see how we could revisit them now.... ------------- All five volumes of The Progressive Underground now available https://www.amazon.com/Kev-Rowland/e/B07RJVRB2X |
Posted By: GruvanDahlman
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 04:19
| Well, I do see your point. It's such a shame they didn't record more progressive albums, since the first two holds such a promise. I sort of expected the answer received and fully appreciate the reason for them not to be included. I wasn't aware that they had been under discussion but it does not surprisr me in the least. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: March 15 2015 at 05:07
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All I know is that their first 2 albums are major Prog rarities. Then I know they became pompous mainstream tools............ Still wish I could find Scented Gardens For The Blind on vinyl.......... |
Posted By: sl75
Date Posted: March 22 2015 at 19:21
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I thought they were approved for Prog-Related??? |
Posted By: sl75
Date Posted: March 22 2015 at 19:31
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http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=67698&PN=2 harmonium.ro posted halfway down the page to say they'd been approved for Prog Related, and it looks like they were waiting for someone to finish off the discography etc - which, it looks like GruvanDahlman could do for them. It's weird seeing the reasoning on both threads that, although Dragon's first two albums are undoubtedly progressive rock, they should be rejected from any full prog category because of the rest of their discography. I'm sure I've read somewhere on this site that an artist has only to release ONE prog album to be eligible for inclusion here - Dragon have released two! |
Posted By: yam yam
Date Posted: March 22 2015 at 21:35
^ There was a lot of support from various prominent members of the site in that thread for this band to be added to Prog Related - including a  from a member of our current admin team. Seems to me it was a done deal that never did get done...and it just needs finishing off now. 
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Posted By: GruvanDahlman
Date Posted: March 23 2015 at 06:59
| The more I listen and ponder the more I feel they ought to be included. From what i can gather it seems like some sort of slip-up. I sure hope this could be remedied now. 😊 |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 23 2015 at 08:05
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^Hi Christian. I think it's a case of a band falling between the cracks. Alex left PA for his own personal reasons before Dragon was added. If you'd care to write a bio, then I'm sure we could get these guys included. Another thing: I'm sure this will infuriate most of the posters here advocating them, but had Dragon been suggested for Prog Related today, I'm pretty sure they would've been turned down. It's not like they aren't as 'proggy-sounding' as most of the other acts featured in PR, but we've made a decision to only add bands to this sub, if they in some way influenced or indeed made their mark on our much beloved genre. Dragon cannot claim either (maybe apart from a few obscure Aussie groups). I mean no disrespect by the way - I have loads of favourite artists, who all straddle the fence of progressive and pop/mainstream/hard rock/blues/electronic/jazz, but I do see the reason why Sun Ra, Grateful Dead, Cream, Scorpions and The Beach Boys aren't featured. Let's face it, if we were to include every 70s act that ever flirted around with the style, then we'd be facing a PR section twice as big as all the others combined. As a matter of fact, there's been quite a few well respected members and posters alike over the years all advocating for the removal of both the proto and related subs, because they "water-down" the focus of prog rock to something the site had never intended for when it first started out. We're basically somewhere in the middle nowadays, which does mean that both of these sub genres are very difficult to get into (which is the way it should be imo).
------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: GruvanDahlman
Date Posted: April 04 2015 at 08:58
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I have given this much thought and I have decided not to write a bio on Dragon. After carefully weighing arguments from both camps, I feel that though the first two albums are prog, the overwhelming part of the Dragon discography contains too much fluff and pop. I would love to review their first two records but feel that an inclusion would add to the feeling of "watering down" the contents on PA. I thank all of you who took the time to discuss this topic, All the best! Christian |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 04 2015 at 11:35
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Hi again Christian I understand your sentiment on this. I hope my previous post didn't discourage you from going forward with a bio. That was not my intention at all. If you do change your mind, I think it's only fair to let these guys in seeing as they were approved so long ago. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: GruvanDahlman
Date Posted: April 04 2015 at 11:55
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Hi again! I assure you, you didn't put me off. Rather you pointed towards a very significant point and I ultimately felt that you were right. If Dragon ever is inducted I will be pleased but I will not be the one getting them in. They and their likes (one-offs in prog territory, prior to plunging themselves into other genres) are a difficult bunch to handle. |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 04 2015 at 12:01
Ok thanks for clarifying I certainly don't want to be the one to put a stop to a decision made long before I became admin. ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |
Posted By: sl75
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 05:30
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Can't we just write a bio that says something like: "Dragon were formed in New Zealand as a progressive rock band. They recorded two albums which have become cult classics in Australia and New Zealand. They then moved to Australia, radically changed direction, and after that no one here cares. Listen to the first two albums only." |
Posted By: GruvanDahlman
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 05:37
| That would sum up just about everything. Quite to the point. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 06:10
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Their discog. will have ratings like (now I haven't heard, nor seen the first 2 rare albums) but they might be good. 4-4-0-0-0-0-0-0.........however many April Sun In Cubas or Rains they've done. |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 06:21
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Awww first link I LIKE VERY MUCH the song, I usually have to try others before making up my mind, this I like inc. vocals! DRAGON Universal Radio 01 Universal Radio - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZg43jBZeRY&feature=youtu.be" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZg43jBZeRY&feature=youtu.be Now why as per above was this rejected? It tops so many accepted albums here on PA to be honest. That bass and guitar and percussion, come on, really? Seriously? This frickin' brilliant! Verv Floyd like vocals/Roger Waters. Seriously, am I mistaken or see it was rejected here on PA?
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 06:24
I am confused here  maybe I misunderstood things. What was the outcome here?
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Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 06:32
| this 80's arena pop tune I don't like, but then again also do not like Bowie's 80's albums, even if he is my ultimate artist except 80's click track loke auto tune sounds, I hate that auto beat bah! Arghhhhxx Dragon - Rain - Live 1984 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FelOCIgySUk" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FelOCIgySUk God this is awful and the slurring singing is not helping either, but that auto beat tune kills me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 06:41
Dragon (New Zealand) http://progfreak.com/Dragon-95437.html" rel="nofollow - http://progfreak.com/Dragon-95437.html?path=pa/recent" rel="nofollow - Subscribe to RSS Feed
------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 06:54
Awww Olav, they are really good, first time, first listen and I like them already. Their sound is interesting and not compressed to hell. They are certainly not rock nor pop, their musicianship is good really and I think it is unfair for them not to be included on here, enabling other to rate them. I do think they would contribute to PA because even I who have some kind of ADD I stayed listening to them, till the end, ever changing and liked it very much. This is not fair, I know nothing about them, never heard them before but I liked what I heard and they should be included here. There is no reason why not, they tick all minimum boxes even more compared to some added on here.
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Windhawk wrote:Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:05
| Ok bear in mind that this was in 1079, listen it may sound like typical arena rock, but at 2.09min is so good the instrumentals really :) great layers. Ok even so this is rock but dang that bass player he on everything is outstanding. Dragon - April Sun In Cuba - Live 1979 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLbafsVxNIg" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLbafsVxNIg |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:08
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I agree with you Sonia, but was outvoted. That is how this site works. ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:12
Very naughty voters
except you Olav, you are fab teddy bear's son,  plus just too awesome for words really    |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:17
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Hehe, I can be naughty too though. By enjoying stuff such as this for instance :-) ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:30
You are naughty and funny Olav  very balanced and pass in terms of Bedlam Institute inmate requirements.hahaha this video, not sure if I like the moozik but the video is really great and music great fitting too and somehow makes me think of the movies Snatch & Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels
 |
Posted By: Windhawk
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:36
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Presumably that means that you don't mind seeing some T&A then *chuckles* ------------- Websites I work with: http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/ |
Posted By: sl75
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:37
Yep - just like Split Enz - one genuine prog album that rates above 4, and then a whole lot of other albums that barely rate at all But that one album means they deserve to be here. And I note they weren't shunted to Prog Related. |
Posted By: David64T
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:41
You are on the mark there - the stylistic shift was certainly drastic and I predict the drop in ratings on PA would be greater than seen for other bands that perhaps moved away from prog after their initial albums (Split Enz and Journey spring to my mind). Although based on the rather nice Aztec CD reissue of Universal Radio, I might give it a rating of 3 rather than 4...the UR album has some very good moments and is worth seeking out for a listen, but it's not a "lost classic". To my ears the music on UR is rather like "the sum of their influences at the time", including (but not limited to) Floyd and Santana. In Todd Hunter's biography, the info on the early years in NZ and the first two Dragon albums iis interesting and the period was covered a bit more deeply than I expected. I certainly hope there will be a reissue of that second Dragon prog album sometime... I have to say I still think it's pretty odd to go to http://www.progarchives.com/Bands-country.asp?country=147" rel="nofollow - the PA page for New Zealand and not see Dragon in the list there - had Dragon released only two albums, UR and SGftB, I suspect the band would be in PA already; but, that said, there is much wisdom on this thread already and the reasons for Dragon not to be added to PA have been put well. ------------- Seasons Of Change - weekly programme on community radio: https://seasonsofchangeradio.blogspot.com.au/" rel="nofollow - http://seasonsofchangeradio.blogspot.com.au/ |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:48
I must have missed something because I cannot see any reason or comments posted why they should not be on PA?
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Posted By: David64T
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 07:54
Yes, the comparison with Split Enz is an good and interesting one - the similarities and differences between the two bands could make an interesting discussion paper if not a book! ------------- Seasons Of Change - weekly programme on community radio: https://seasonsofchangeradio.blogspot.com.au/" rel="nofollow - http://seasonsofchangeradio.blogspot.com.au/ |
Posted By: Kati
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 08:00
| I honestly see no reason why not to add them, they certainly have prog elements with the added factor (this is great) that they are from New Zealand, we certainly need more diversity and so far I only know one other band from New Zealand. Adding a band on PA with Prog elements does not automatically add them to the top album years releases, they will need to earn this by getting a few reviews and ratings in order to gather enough points to take part in the top 100 chart. |
Posted By: Tom Ozric
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 08:04
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Split Enz are a valid case in point. A couple of genuinely Sympho-Prog albums, then streamlined, albeit quirky, commercial, radio-friendly Pop. Given that Dragon did have early Prog albums, then turned toward the mainstream, I'm thinking they should be included. Who knows, just like Journey, and even Styx, the later albums will still have fans and get ratings - I'm sure that reviews will highlight key tracks, and even state any songs which happen to be poor. I actually don't see why they shouldn't be included. |
Posted By: David64T
Date Posted: April 05 2015 at 08:06
I was looking at:
Open to further discussion of course for any band and for Dragon in particular. ------------- Seasons Of Change - weekly programme on community radio: https://seasonsofchangeradio.blogspot.com.au/" rel="nofollow - http://seasonsofchangeradio.blogspot.com.au/ |
Posted By: FatOldSun
Date Posted: April 27 2015 at 08:29
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Listening to "Scented Gardens For The Blind" I'm surprised to find that the only band called Dragon on PA is from Belgium. The music is undeniably progressive rock. I don't see why a change to a more commercial sound on later albums should exclude them from here. It didn't stop Genesis after all! |
Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: April 27 2015 at 08:36
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^ Exactly. ------------- https://gabebuller.bandcamp.com/" rel="nofollow - New album! http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385" rel="nofollow - http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385 |
Posted By: sl75
Date Posted: April 27 2015 at 09:00
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Back to the business of getting them on here- regardless of arguments about the merits of the decision, they have already been approved some time back, and it seems the holdup in getting their page launched is getting a complete bio and discography I've already a suggestion about how to deal with the bio - presented as facetious, but I was at least semi-serious about that proposal. Why not? It's the truth - most people here are only interested in Dragon's career up to 1975, so why waste time researching and writing the forty years since? I couldn't provide a full discography, but how much does that matter? Again, it's only those first two albums most of us here care about. Is it a huge problem if we add them with detail for just those first two albums to start with? Others will be able to add other albums later. I've added albums to what were otherwise incomplete discographies for Ariel and Mario Millo, and the discography for Spectrum is still incomplete - Spill (Spectrum Plays The Blues) is missing - so obviously there is precedent for adding bands to the site with their discographies still a work in progress. |
Posted By: FatOldSun
Date Posted: April 27 2015 at 09:18
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Easy enough just to look at their Wiki page for both their history and discography. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_%28band%29" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_%28band%29 |
Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: April 28 2015 at 10:44
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I just added http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=9373" rel="nofollow - Dragon to PR . I only bothered to add the first two albums though ------------- “The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.” - Douglas Adams |