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Joren 
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: February 07 2004 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 6667 |
 Posted: August 10 2005 at 16:40 |
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I am also against the creatng of a "progpunk" subgenre, but I think Philippe and Ivan shouldn't be so onesided in their opinion. What about Faust - "So Far" and Peter Hammill - "Nadir's Big Chance". They are clear examples of how to mix prog and punk. It's rare, but it happens.
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 09:38 |
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Odd when Clash were probably the most anti-prog of all the main punk bands. However, how does Big Audio Dynamite fit in wiht the scheme of things???
And as to PIL - many people tell me Flowers is Lyden's Can album, while CD is Lyden's Bill Laswell album with Ginger Baker, Steve Vai sounding out loud and clear.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 10:07 |
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"Nadir's Big Chance" actually was an important precursor of punk; John
Lydon aka Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols mentioned the influence of
"Nadir's Big Chance" several times.
the Stranglers on the other hand are very wrongly branded with the "punk" attribute. their music is highly complex and even polyphonic at times (which is something only very few prog bands ever managed, like Gentle Giant or High Tide). I personally would vote for an inclusion of the Stranglers; their music has a lot more to do with prog than with punk. their album "Black and White" is an excellent example for that; just listen to it without preconceived notions about the "punkishness" of the Stranglers, and you will definitely see my point. the musicologist Tibor Kneif, the first one to hold lectures on rock music at a German university, points this mis-labelling of the Stranglers out too in his excellent book "Sachlexikon der Rockmusik" ("Enyclopedia of Rock Music Terms") |
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 A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Dick Heath
Special Collaborator
Jazz-Rock Specialist Joined: April 19 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 12818 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 10:11 |
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More crap thinking demonstrated here. Punk, taking the lead from earlier American punk, was not created, it's the first level musicians reach when they are confident enough to go out a make simple rock'n'rock. Anybody thinking prog bands appear out of the blue with spontaneously created virtuosi in the line-up, without going through that stage of being limited musicians, should think again. People want to play rock'n'rock, and as punk demonstrated it could be home made and fun on a limited budget (both in terms of funds for kit and ability) - like the early 60's US garage bands*. But "created" - punk has always been far more spontaneous than prog, and to ignore it you miss some good music. Check out the rawness of the Kingsmen's Louis Louis and then the sophistication of Touch's pioneering album 3 to 4 years later - same leader Don Gallucci |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21588 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 10:21 |
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Crap thinking? Sorry, but all you said in response to my post is that many bands started doing punk/rock music BEFORE their prog phase. Surely you can't label a band Punk-Prog just because they used to play punk before they played prog. I continue to say that as soon as a Punk band tries to be more progressive, it is automatically less Punk.
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10387 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 11:18 |
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listen to "Pass Out", "Punkadelic" or "The President Tapes" by Inner City Unit, and you will hear how punk and prog go hand in hand. Inner City Unit are the only band I know though for which the label "Progressive Punk" really would fit. if you know the Hawkwind live record "This is Hawkwind! Do Not Panic" you already have heard them once, because the track "Watching the Grass Grow" is actually played by Inner City Unit |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta |
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Hangedman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 03 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1261 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 11:43 |
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I dont think thers enought of it to make a subsection. But anyone whose heard Cardiacs would never say that prog punk (or as whoever wrote the section on them here said "Pronk") doesnt exist. The cardiacs sound like a mix of Gentle Giant and The Sex Pistols.
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21588 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 11:49 |
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I don't know the Cardiacs, that's true. I'll try to listen to them ... I still don't believe in Prog-Punk, but you never know ...
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Kohllapse
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: August 14 2005 Status: Offline Points: 1063 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 12:55 |
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The band "Blister" bills themselves as "proressive punk" http://blisteris.home.mindspring.com/indexflash.html and refused http://www.burningheart.com/refused/
Edited by Kohllapse |
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Hangedman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 03 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1261 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 12:56 |
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Prepare to have your perception of music laid to waste Theres some samples on their website, id suggest Angleworm the Angel, To Go Off and Things, Big Ship (live), and Piffol Four Times |
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Online Points: 21588 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 13:04 |
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I doubt that they will shatter my perception of music ... they'll merely add another interesting facet. I saw that Trouserpress had one of their albums in his signature, together with a few others which I know and love ... |
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Borealis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 599 |
Posted: August 22 2005 at 18:08 |
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Why does every time a prog album sound raw, noisy and energic, it has to be prog-punk? Just says it is some raw, noisy and energic prog-rock, not progpunk! I mean, Can's sound look like a 'punk sound', but they aren't punkprog. Punk didn't even existed when they were here. Prog punk doesn't exist, it's impossible. Mars Volta are only an Hard Prog Rock band, like Rush is, but with more noise, and more instrumentalisation (well, it's probably more complicated than that, but it's not a punkprog band!) I'll check out the Cardiacs, This band always come up when some one talk about a possible mix of prog and punk... |
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Vive le Québec libre!...
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 05 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3525 |
Posted: August 26 2005 at 20:14 |
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Nothing galvanizes the proggers like the subject of punk, eh?
 Imagine the misconceptions of prog that must exist from people who have only heard a half-dozen racks. Punk's burst of popularity was indeed, as Ivan says, something of a reaction to the popular music of the time- but if it hadn't been prog that was popular, it would have been something else. Prog was just a convenient target because the musicians weren't attempting to hide their various pretensions- and, as much of prog derived from the music of the 60s, many younger music fans may have felt it was a bit 'old' and they wanted something newer, more visceral. What's wrong with that? The consequences of the punk attitude towards deconstruction and exploration led to a number of incredibly original bands precisely at the time when prog was losing steam and many prog bands were somewhat unattractively courting mainstream success. Those of you who feel that punk killed prog are giving a lot of credit to a movement that never produced a top-grossing touring act or more than a half-dozen charting songs. The real power of punk was that it re-invigorated music as a whole- including prog, which is bigger and more vital now than it has been since the 70s. Among other things, ask any of the post-rock bands what their influences are- I'm sure there will be plenty of punk and post-punk (i.e., the music that punk directly inspired) listed. I'm not a big fan of the Stranglers, though. I prefer Sonic Youth- now there's a truly progressive punk band. Check out "Daydream Nation" if you don't believe me. |
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Hangedman
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 03 2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1261 |
Posted: August 26 2005 at 21:08 |
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No, they really shouldnt lay it to waste. Exageration is my favourite type of humor But you really wont regret checking them out, I love em personally |
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Borealis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 06 2005 Location: Neutral Zone Status: Offline Points: 599 |
Posted: August 27 2005 at 16:20 |
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I've always thought Sonic Youth to be making noisy music, not punk prog! They clearly influenced some Post-rock bands these days, they're a great band, but aren't close to punk... |
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Vive le Québec libre!...
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 05 2004 Status: Offline Points: 3525 |
Posted: September 03 2005 at 06:58 |
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That's interesting- I had a similar debate with someone about The Mars Volta. I think I can hear obvious punk influences in both bands, but I guess some people don't? Maybe it's how the 'punk sound' is perceived...I can see where neither band really resembles the more popular British wave of punk (Pistols, Clash, Damned, etc.) or the short & fast three-chorders (The Ramones, etc), but there's some resemblance to the Stooges, Television, Wire, and plenty of Velvet Underground (yeah, I know- nobody's really sure if they belong to punk or not either ). |
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PROGMAN
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: February 03 2004 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 2664 |
Posted: September 19 2005 at 10:32 |
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PROGPUNK that like breeding a Cat and Dog! Um putting Milk in the Cupboard and Corn Flakes in the Refridgerator. Um puting Fairy Liquid in Tea and Mile in the Washing Up!
But it could be done! progpunk! |
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CYMRU AM BYTH
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What About A Prog Punk Section
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