Dream Theater's BC&SL Discussion

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

 Petrovsk Mizinski wrote:

 Negoba wrote:

The main reason we're reconsidering is the loss of PoS and Beardfish. I pretty much knew what I was going to get with DT. I didn't mean to say Rudess wasn't a musician at all, just that he's more of a player and less of a big picture guy like Moore is. 

I was a big fan of the shred scene long before Pertucci was its standard bearer and he's pretty average. He just hasn't added anything as a guitarist to what had already been done. You have to remember, Varney was putting out a new guy every 6 months in those days, and many of those guys are legends of the shred scene now. I had all their debut albums (Greg Howe, Jason Becker, Tony MacAlpine, Vinnie Moore....on and on.) What I liked about him most was his riffs, which were the first to use mathematical subdivisions to create strange syncopations. But with bands like Meshuggah taking that ball and running so much further with it....

Anyway, I'm leaning toward going, mainly after watching some youtube of Zappa play Zappa. 

If I'm going to check out a Rudess-era album, where would start?

I do kinda get what you're saying about Petrucci, in terms of lead guitar.
You're right, all the tapping, sweep picking, legato, alternate picking, it had been done before really.
You're right about his innovations with rhythm guitar though, it's often overlooked because he is seen first and foremost a shred hero, whereas I think he's an amazing, versatile all rounder.

What is often forgotten though, is the use of the 7 string on Awake.
In terms of the modern 7 string, Vai was first with his use in Whitesnake and his album Passion and Warfare, and of course, we had Korn in 1994 with their debut, funnily enough also using an Ibanez Universe for the album.
But in the world of technical metal playing, practically no one before Petrucci was rocking a 7 string.
Sure, guys  were tuning their 6 strings down, but usually only drop D or maybe D standard at most at the most, not much lower on average.
Petrucci's work on Awake with the 7 string is probably the first time a prog metal band had fused a super heavy Pantera-ish groove metal riff played on a 7 string, yet unlike the down tuned groove metal bands of the time Petrucci took full advantage of the extended range of the 7 string to create crazy soloing lines.
To a lot of 6 stringers it might not mean much, but you go on guitar forums and talk to 7 string players, about 1/4 of those 7 string players say if it wasn't for Petrucci and the stuff he did on a 7, they wouldn't be playing 7 strings today. It really did impact a lot of players in a huge way, but of course it's not hugely noticeable to the average joe because the 7 string guitar is still a relatively niche instrument.
Petrucci took a risk when he used the 7, because it just wasn't done in prog metal before and ultimately it ended up being a big contribution to the way heavy metal is today.

Kinda why I hate the new record in a way, because it lacks the risk taking that truly drove records like Awake to be so stunning and innovative.

I should have figured only you would get this. And you're absolutely correct. When Steve Vai came out with his 7-string it was intended as an extra high string. Pertucci was one of the few who realized where the strength of the instrument actually was. 

Harry, you can't possibly understand what it was like to be learning guitar when I did, basically 1987 to 1994. This was they heyday of shredding and at University of Illinois from 1994 I took lessons from at least 4 different guys. The worst of them had been to GIT and could shred near to anything you hear Pertucci do now. The best guy taught me how do to Stanley Jordan piano-style tapping and the showcase of my guitar solo in 1994 was playing "The Entertainer" by Scott Joplin two handed for guitar. And I was just a punk kid. The best guy also played for a prog band called Animator whose only album is actually on this site. Sadly, he came in after they recorded it as they were phenomenal live but their recorded album is pretty straight neo-prog and their guitar player wasn't the master that my teacher was. You would have just melted to live in those days, man. If you watch youtube of Dweezil Zappa now, that's how it was. Every town had at least 5-10 guys that good. 

At the same time, bearing through the lyrics in those days was harsh.....