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The Quiet One View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: 'Hot Artists (Top 40)' a change?
    Posted: June 12 2009 at 18:59
It's quite a good feature, but I was thinking if it would be better to filter the popular bands, and just leave merely "unknown" bands, since it's pretty useless to have 'Yes', 'Rush', 'Dream Theater', etc, there, and btw they will never leave!

What do you think?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 19:19
The feature is based on the bands or artists most discussed in the Forums, as far as I've been able to understand - so, there's no chance to see the likes of Rush or Yes disappear, I'm afraidWink.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 19:23
Originally posted by Raff Raff wrote:

The feature is based on the bands or artists most discussed in the Forums, as far as I've been able to understand - so, there's no chance to see the likes of Rush or Yes disappear, I'm afraidWink.


I think it's based on the 'most viewed artists page' if I'm not wrong, and my offer was to filter these popular bands. BTW, the "no chance to see the likes of Rush or Yes disappear" that's the issue I statedWink

EDIT: "Actually guys, it's based on the artist pages with most pages viewed the day before." M@X


Edited by The Quiet One - June 12 2009 at 19:26
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 19:39
You know, Pablo, I really couldn't care less about that feature, so it's not surprising I got it wrongLOL!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 20:21
M@x, you cheeky, cheeky monkey... Can you do that with all our posts?

And yes, I'm expecting my post to be editted if you can
"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 23:16
Yes, let's hide the general populace's preferences for their own good.
Instead, let's promote our own enlightened opinions.
Tell you what, I'll go first. When I'm done listing these top 40 bands, I'll ask another collab to do the same.
Wait, how do I know that the properly obscure or deserving bands will get the attention they need ?
"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2009 at 23:34
Let's remove the popular "hot artists" from the list and make it "lukewarm artists".  But I want less popular still... Make it  "Artists in need of thawing".

Seriously, how would we go about deciding which artists are too popular for the list?  That would be very contentious, seem/ be quite unfair, and make a "hot list" kind of wrong/ misrepresentative on its terms. The terms could change, but then it wouldn't serve the same function it was implemented for.  It's a bit like removing the top twenty albums from the "Most popular albums list" to give the lower ranked ones more exposure.

In this case, I think the feature is better as it is, but that's just my opinion.  Actually, there are some other changes I think would work... and it can always be tweaked


Edited by Logan - June 12 2009 at 23:37
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 11:51
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Let's remove the popular "hot artists" from the list and make it "lukewarm artists".  But I want less popular still... Make it  "Artists in need of thawing".

Seriously, how would we go about deciding which artists are too popular for the list?  That would be very contentious, seem/ be quite unfair, and make a "hot list" kind of wrong/ misrepresentative on its terms. The terms could change, but then it wouldn't serve the same function it was implemented for.  It's a bit like removing the top twenty albums from the "Most popular albums list" to give the lower ranked ones more exposure.

In this case, I think the feature is better as it is, but that's just my opinion.  Actually, there are some other changes I think would work... and it can always be tweaked


Don't you find it obvious? Rush, Yes, ELP, DT, etc, those have NEVER left the list! It's pretty annoying to see those bands everytime, while the lesser-known bands are shadowed by them in the list.

Well, I had thought more support for this 'change', seems not...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 20:21
What you should understand is that the function is based on what bands have received the most visits at PA. This is not PA promoting or pushing one group over another. This is just a reflection of the choices made by the members who do so.
You may have noticed efforts like the "overlooked & unknown gems" list found on each genre's main page.

Now, being open-minded, I would be O.K. to M@x setting up something to highlight the most obscure bands on the site. Something like the top 40 in reverse.
  No ... wait ... how would you resolve a 1000 way tie ?

There are a number of efforts that PA collabs & admin (along with many a senior member) to spotlight lesser know gems.  You may (or should) have noticed a great example of this that is still on our main page - a review of Stefano Testa's album - Una Vita Una Balena Bianca E Altre Cose (also found here - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=23595).

So ... my question finally arrives - what band or bands do YOU want to bring attention to that you feel the rest of the prog fandom is unfairly ignoring ?  And why have you not reviewed them, or if you have, started threads about them, or even communicated with other collabs or admin to see if they know of the band(s) to see if you could generate further reviews ?

After all, why should the site hide the most commonly requested info from a visitor ? IN this case, the site makes no effort to push one or hamper another. It gives a snapshot of recent activity. With no value judgement implied or stated. IF I want to find out about Roman history, why would I want or need to start with Flavius Belisarius instead of Julius Caesar ?


"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 13 2009 at 22:35
Pablo, a qualm I have with the feature is the name, "Hot artists".  I might rather see it called "Most searched artists" or something like that (was it called that before?) as it's clearer how the artists are selected, and it doesn't sound like a Top 40 Pop artist list.  Although I find "hot artists" rather humorous.  My problems with blacklisting select artists from the list is that it will not be truly representative of the most searched (therefore defeating the purpose), it will irk people that we have opted to exclude some, and would cause confusion unless specified (people might even try to search, search, search, say Dream Theater trying to get it on the list, and then enlist others toi do the same if they didn't know that it was excluded, and if they did know they might consider it unfair).

 Imagine the reaction if we explicitly state: "Most searched artists minus [certain popular ones ] Rush, Dream Theater, Genesis, Yes etc." or say "Hot Artists minus Rush, Dream Theater etc."  We excluded them from the most searched feature because they don't need the exposure, and since so many people search for them anyway, they don't need mentioning in the most searched feature.  It defeats the purpose of the feature to exclude bands (that is seeing which is being searched for the most).  

Indeed, it's a stats things, not a fetaure that should involve such judgement.  It's for seeing what bands people are checking out, and of course, probably meant to appeal to the majority who are the people who are checking out those bands,  It's nice for them too see that they played a part in making something hot, and would be upsetting to some of them if they thought that what they searched for and cared about didn't count  (at least in regards to the feature cause their searches for those excluded bands aren't accounted for).

M@X could, also, make it so the top twentymost searched for artists don't make it, but I see that as manipulative, and potentially misleading for a hot list.  Or he could disable searching for certian artists altogether, and then one could honestly say that the hot list is accurate based on searches.  Of course he wouldn't do that.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2009 at 10:38
Originally posted by debrewguy debrewguy wrote:

What you should understand is that the function is based on what bands have received the most visits at PA. This is not PA promoting or pushing one group over another. This is just a reflection of the choices made by the members who do so.
You may have noticed efforts like the "overlooked & unknown gems" list found on each genre's main page.

Now, being open-minded, I would be O.K. to M@x setting up something to highlight the most obscure bands on the site. Something like the top 40 in reverse.
  No ... wait ... how would you resolve a 1000 way tie ?

There are a number of efforts that PA collabs & admin (along with many a senior member) to spotlight lesser know gems.  You may (or should) have noticed a great example of this that is still on our main page - a review of Stefano Testa's album - Una Vita Una Balena Bianca E Altre Cose (also found here - http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=23595).

So ... my question finally arrives - what band or bands do YOU want to bring attention to that you feel the rest of the prog fandom is unfairly ignoring ?  And why have you not reviewed them, or if you have, started threads about them, or even communicated with other collabs or admin to see if they know of the band(s) to see if you could generate further reviews ?

I don't want any band in particular, just that I think it's pointless to have Dream Theater, Yes, etc, up there. If there are bands "nobody" knows, that would have a bit more of sense, IMHO.

After all, why should the site hide the most commonly requested info from a visitor ? IN this case, the site makes no effort to push one or hamper another. It gives a snapshot of recent activity. With no value judgement implied or stated. IF I want to find out about Roman history, why would I want or need to start with Flavius Belisarius instead of Julius Caesar ?

Because Julius Caesar can be found anywhere: the front page, the top 100, etc. While Flavius Belisarius, there are "few reviews", hardly appear on the front page, etc.




@Logan: Yes, I understand that point and I you're correct at pointing it out. It was my mistake to not include also that 'proposal' of changing the name of "Hot Artists" to something in the lines you sugested.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 14 2009 at 17:39
If you're starting to dig in to a new interest, I say that you're going to start with the basics, the most important or valuable info.
Thus, for PA , that means that a neophyte prog listener is going to want to start with groups you deem overexposed.
And yes, if you're just beginning to read about Roman History, Julius Caesar is a great place to start. After all,  Belisarius' heroics involve re-conquering previously held roman territory. Seems evident that it would be important to know what that is or was to understand the whole story.
Thus with prog. If you start with Yes, DT, VDGG , Gentle Giant, Genesis, Floyd, Crimson or others, you're able to understand reviews and comparisons that use these iconic "signposts" for reference. Not that all reviews do, but a description has to start somewhere. And frankly, using relatively unknown band as your guide is rather hard unless you happen to know them.
You don't see PA describing Deep Purple as sounding like Night Sun, do you ?

NOW HERE GOES ANOTHER THING - no one (newbies or veterans) is under any pressure nor duress to avoid going for the obscurities from the get go.
Again, you now know all the other means that PA has to give lesser known acts some attention.
If that is insufficient, then again, I ask you  - what is really the problem ? Or yours ? (with having Yes, DT et al given more coverage)


"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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