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Deimos

Forum Newbie

Joined: September 14 2008
Location: Brazil
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Points: 10

Topic: The Progressive Rock Keyboard
Posted: February 09 2009 at 14:49

Hello there Progarchives community. I come to you in search of advice.

I am a(really) newbie keyboard player. I really love the sound of synthesizers in prog and that was what gave me the jump start for me to take classes. I plan on buying a Juno-D keyboard eventually to get serious about playing.

My question is, I found The Progressive Rock Keyboard, a book by Dan Maske that details the history, the styles of the key players(pun intended), and has a lot of sheet music used in prog. It is quite expensive, and I wanted to ask you if anyone has ever tried it, since there so few reviews. Any help or directions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

Gustavo Froes View Drop Down

Forum Senior Member

Joined: October 06 2008
Location: Rio,Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 385

Posted: February 09 2009 at 14:51

I never saw that book,but i'd take a good shot and say it is an import.Well...that's why it was so expensive....being brazilian as well,you know how import products arrive here at extorsive prices....

Deimos

Forum Newbie

Joined: September 14 2008
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 10

Posted: February 09 2009 at 15:05

Oh, yes, it would be an import. I just wanted to know if it would be worth it, as I might get it as a gift. Since Prog Rock sheet music is hard to come by, and the book seems to detail very accurately many band's styles and comes with a CD, I thought why not.

Here's a link: http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_inside.html?item=17275675&cart=3443184236133601&type=image&page=01&cm_re=detail-_-lookInside-_-thumbnail:inside

Edited by Deimos - February 09 2009 at 15:05

The Pessimist View Drop Down

Prog Reviewer

Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834

Posted: February 09 2009 at 15:29

Well I don't know the book. But I've played keys with several progressive bands, so if you need any advice on the subject I'd be glad to help

"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."

Arnold Schoenberg

Peachy

Forum Newbie

Joined: January 03 2008
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 1

Posted: February 09 2009 at 17:20

There's a review in the Sound on Sound Archive from November 2005. it's quite a long article, but I have copied the summary.....I am not sure if you can read the article unless you are a subscriber.....but just in case you can, here's the link.....

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/rolandjunod.htm

Conclusion

Over 20 years ago I got my first 'proper' polysynth. It just happened to be a Juno — a Juno 6 — and it still evokes fond memories today. The Juno-D doesn't have such a distinctive personality and it's hard to imagine that it will gain a comparable historical significance. But set aside the name (as Roland should have done) and what you're left with is a solid all-rounder whose synthesis is about as uncomplicated as anything you'll encounter. This makes it ideal for beginners or those in need of a no nonsense array of solid bread-and-butter sounds that involves them in the minimum of head-scratching and manual searching.

For young bands or club entertainers, the Juno-D is a pretty good bet. A light and portable workhorse, it has generous polyphony, a first-rate effects implementation, a versatile arpeggiator and a D-Beam to pose with. It should certainly earn its keep amongst gigging musicians on a budget.

Peachy

BassPlayer_0804 View Drop Down

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Joined: February 09 2009
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 1

Posted: February 09 2009 at 18:16

I own the Progressive Rock Keyboard book by Dan Maske and thought it was really good. I picked it up at a local guitar shop, and really it was a great buy. The book has insight on songwriting, arranging, the tools of the trade (i.e. Hammond, Mellotron, Moogs), and everything to get you started playing and writing your own prog. It comes with a CD that has about 90 tracks, and 6 of those tracks are full songs that are in style of different bands (like Yes, Floyd, ELP). You should check out this link below and click on the "Closer Look."

http://www.halleonard.com/item_detail.jsp?itemid=311307&order=0&catcode=00&refer=search&type=product&keywords=prog+keyboard++

Deimos

Forum Newbie

Joined: September 14 2008
Location: Brazil
Status: Offline
Points: 10

Posted: February 10 2009 at 13:32

Thank you guys, that was a lot of help. I'll get that book.

Roland113

Special Collaborator

Honorary Collaborator

Joined: March 30 2008
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 3843

Posted: February 10 2009 at 19:29

*blinks*

And from the dissenting view, I'd personally spend the money on music or your Juno instead. I learned to play almost exclusively by feel or by playing along with albums or cassettes. With MP3's and CD's it's even easier to learn individual bits and pieces by repeating a section.

You could read about how to play in the style of Genesis or you could pick up Selling England and hit 'repeat' and learn it yourself.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading about prog and such now, but when I was first learning, I enjoyed playing along with the actual music rather than reading about it.

-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob-------

I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms.

jammun

Prog Reviewer

Joined: July 14 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3449

Posted: February 10 2009 at 20:48

I had the good fortune of learning to play keyboards the hard way. I'm not trying to be pretentious or anything, but pick up sheet music of Bach's Two Part Inventions, maybe some Debussy as well. Learn Fur Elise. Then play along with your favorite CD...learn the keyboard parts to a Pink Floyd song. It's not easy, but you'll learn a lot more. When I was trying to learn to play jazz, I picked up countless books which were about the styles, the theory, etc., and they taught me nothing about playing jazz.

Checkout http://www.sudnow.com/, (and no I'm not a shill for this site). He'll teach you more about playing keyboards than all the others combined, I am not kidding. (Thanks David!).

moshkito

Forum Senior Member

Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18078

Posted: February 11 2009 at 12:29

Hi,

If ever I had something that I should have learned as a kid, it was the piano ... but unffortunately at 7 with a teacher that beats your hands, eventually it all went away.

But the music didn't die! You can't take that out of its spirit!

In my old days now, I have picked up a keyboard controller and picked up the Jupiter-8v software and the Miroslav Philarmonik slimmed down version and am not learning to play things a bit more. And I'm having a riot playing around with 10 thousand VST instruments and the like ... and am alreayd composing stuff ... if you can believe it! Guess what .. I'm no Klaus Schulze ... but it is ok for a beginner!

In those days, and with many of these people we love, it was not about "music" per se, in a classical context ... many of them did not even read music ... they just knew what sounded right and good. And followed their instincts. The 20th century in many ways became about the "sound" and not the music ... per se (forget the movie!).

I really think that it took "anti-music" in order to get the synthesizers of today to develop. One had to look at alternative ways to use them, and experiement, way before they became accepted as just another instrument ... (check out Beaver and Krause) still not accepted within a "classical orchestra" context ... well neither is the electric guitar ... but then it took a violin 100 years to get accepted too, not to mention that it was once labeled the instrument of the devil!

I have an early interview with Rick Wright and he said something to the tune of ... don't know about the music thing ... I just know what sounds right and good ... and I am almost positive that he was not interested in hearing someone tell him to play a C Maj69 or a A Min 32 ... because when it comes down to it, and you listen to your soul ... and that was the difference between "an artist" and a "musician" ... one plays notes and the other plays ... is there a word for it? Feelings?

If you gonna learn, I say make the commitment to learn it ... and I am getting closer to it every day ... where I should have been in the first place and didn't know about it! ... but it is really far out to play something and think to yourself ... neat ... Faust did that 35 years ago! ... wow .. I remember Klaus doing that ... or even better ... put on Tomita ... and you can hear all those VCO's and LFO's ... and realize how simple it is today.

In general, I think that "hardware" will fall off really hard, specially synthesizers ... they helped create DIGITAL ... and in a way they made themselves redundant ... things can be done all digital and the only reason to get a hardware synth these days ... is ... the knobs and the sliders!

I'm resigned to the software and am enjoying the trip through the synth world via those and now am learning to record things with Live/ProTools and so on ... If I had picked up a synthesizer ... it would probably slow me down right now ... unless you are looking to also learn how to play keyboard (piano like) ... and then you still have to figure out what to do with it all.

I'm finding that the software synthesizers/keyboards are much more complete ... they may not have the "glow" and the "glory" of owning a Jupiter 8, or a Prophet 5 ... or a Yamaha DX7 ... however, your ability to "compose" and "envision" something comes to the fore in 3 seconds flat!

If you are looking to play in a band ... then yes, a synth is a must ... although I think I would consider having a computer and monitor with a midi keyboard on a stage ten times before I would consider having a synthesizer these days! Portability is sometimes an issue you know? And digital is now digital and the debate of which is better is almost mute ... digital will be way better in 5 more years ...

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Deimos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Newbie Joined: September 14 2008 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 10	Topic: The Progressive Rock Keyboard Posted: February 09 2009 at 14:49
	Hello there Progarchives community. I come to you in search of advice. I am a(really) newbie keyboard player. I really love the sound of synthesizers in prog and that was what gave me the jump start for me to take classes. I plan on buying a Juno-D keyboard eventually to get serious about playing. My question is, I found The Progressive Rock Keyboard, a book by Dan Maske that details the history, the styles of the key players(pun intended), and has a lot of sheet music used in prog. It is quite expensive, and I wanted to ask you if anyone has ever tried it, since there so few reviews. Any help or directions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

Gustavo Froes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: October 06 2008 Location: Rio,Brazil Status: Offline Points: 385	Posted: February 09 2009 at 14:51
	I never saw that book,but i'd take a good shot and say it is an import.Well...that's why it was so expensive....being brazilian as well,you know how import products arrive here at extorsive prices....

Deimos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Newbie Joined: September 14 2008 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 10	Posted: February 09 2009 at 15:05
	Oh, yes, it would be an import. I just wanted to know if it would be worth it, as I might get it as a gift. Since Prog Rock sheet music is hard to come by, and the book seems to detail very accurately many band's styles and comes with a CD, I thought why not. Here's a link: http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp_inside.html?item=17275675&cart=3443184236133601&type=image&page=01&cm_re=detail-_-lookInside-_-thumbnail:inside Edited by Deimos - February 09 2009 at 15:05

The Pessimist Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: June 13 2007 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3834	Posted: February 09 2009 at 15:29
	Well I don't know the book. But I've played keys with several progressive bands, so if you need any advice on the subject I'd be glad to help
	"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value." Arnold Schoenberg

Peachy Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Newbie Joined: January 03 2008 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1	Posted: February 09 2009 at 17:20
	There's a review in the Sound on Sound Archive from November 2005. it's quite a long article, but I have copied the summary.....I am not sure if you can read the article unless you are a subscriber.....but just in case you can, here's the link..... http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar05/articles/rolandjunod.htm Conclusion Over 20 years ago I got my first 'proper' polysynth. It just happened to be a Juno — a Juno 6 — and it still evokes fond memories today. The Juno-D doesn't have such a distinctive personality and it's hard to imagine that it will gain a comparable historical significance. But set aside the name (as Roland should have done) and what you're left with is a solid all-rounder whose synthesis is about as uncomplicated as anything you'll encounter. This makes it ideal for beginners or those in need of a no nonsense array of solid bread-and-butter sounds that involves them in the minimum of head-scratching and manual searching. For young bands or club entertainers, the Juno-D is a pretty good bet. A light and portable workhorse, it has generous polyphony, a first-rate effects implementation, a versatile arpeggiator and a D-Beam to pose with. It should certainly earn its keep amongst gigging musicians on a budget.
	Peachy

BassPlayer_0804 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Newbie Joined: February 09 2009 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 1	Posted: February 09 2009 at 18:16
	I own the Progressive Rock Keyboard book by Dan Maske and thought it was really good. I picked it up at a local guitar shop, and really it was a great buy. The book has insight on songwriting, arranging, the tools of the trade (i.e. Hammond, Mellotron, Moogs), and everything to get you started playing and writing your own prog. It comes with a CD that has about 90 tracks, and 6 of those tracks are full songs that are in style of different bands (like Yes, Floyd, ELP). You should check out this link below and click on the "Closer Look." http://www.halleonard.com/item_detail.jsp?itemid=311307&order=0&catcode=00&refer=search&type=product&keywords=prog+keyboard++

Deimos Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Newbie Joined: September 14 2008 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 10	Posted: February 10 2009 at 13:32
	Thank you guys, that was a lot of help. I'll get that book.

Roland113 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 30 2008 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Status: Offline Points: 3843	Posted: February 10 2009 at 19:29
	blinks And from the dissenting view, I'd personally spend the money on music or your Juno instead. I learned to play almost exclusively by feel or by playing along with albums or cassettes. With MP3's and CD's it's even easier to learn individual bits and pieces by repeating a section. You could read about how to play in the style of Genesis or you could pick up Selling England and hit 'repeat' and learn it yourself. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading about prog and such now, but when I was first learning, I enjoyed playing along with the actual music rather than reading about it.
	-------someone please tell him to delete this line, he looks like a noob------- I don't have an unnatural obsession with Disney Princesses, I have a fourteen year old daughter and coping mechanisms.

jammun Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Prog Reviewer Joined: July 14 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3449	Posted: February 10 2009 at 20:48
	I had the good fortune of learning to play keyboards the hard way. I'm not trying to be pretentious or anything, but pick up sheet music of Bach's Two Part Inventions, maybe some Debussy as well. Learn Fur Elise. Then play along with your favorite CD...learn the keyboard parts to a Pink Floyd song. It's not easy, but you'll learn a lot more. When I was trying to learn to play jazz, I picked up countless books which were about the styles, the theory, etc., and they taught me nothing about playing jazz. Checkout http://www.sudnow.com/, (and no I'm not a shill for this site). He'll teach you more about playing keyboards than all the others combined, I am not kidding. (Thanks David!).

moshkito Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18078	Posted: February 11 2009 at 12:29
	Hi, If ever I had something that I should have learned as a kid, it was the piano ... but unffortunately at 7 with a teacher that beats your hands, eventually it all went away. But the music didn't die! You can't take that out of its spirit! In my old days now, I have picked up a keyboard controller and picked up the Jupiter-8v software and the Miroslav Philarmonik slimmed down version and am not learning to play things a bit more. And I'm having a riot playing around with 10 thousand VST instruments and the like ... and am alreayd composing stuff ... if you can believe it! Guess what .. I'm no Klaus Schulze ... but it is ok for a beginner! In those days, and with many of these people we love, it was not about "music" per se, in a classical context ... many of them did not even read music ... they just knew what sounded right and good. And followed their instincts. The 20th century in many ways became about the "sound" and not the music ... per se (forget the movie!). I really think that it took "anti-music" in order to get the synthesizers of today to develop. One had to look at alternative ways to use them, and experiement, way before they became accepted as just another instrument ... (check out Beaver and Krause) still not accepted within a "classical orchestra" context ... well neither is the electric guitar ... but then it took a violin 100 years to get accepted too, not to mention that it was once labeled the instrument of the devil! I have an early interview with Rick Wright and he said something to the tune of ... don't know about the music thing ... I just know what sounds right and good ... and I am almost positive that he was not interested in hearing someone tell him to play a C Maj69 or a A Min 32 ... because when it comes down to it, and you listen to your soul ... and that was the difference between "an artist" and a "musician" ... one plays notes and the other plays ... is there a word for it? Feelings? If you gonna learn, I say make the commitment to learn it ... and I am getting closer to it every day ... where I should have been in the first place and didn't know about it! ... but it is really far out to play something and think to yourself ... neat ... Faust did that 35 years ago! ... wow .. I remember Klaus doing that ... or even better ... put on Tomita ... and you can hear all those VCO's and LFO's ... and realize how simple it is today. In general, I think that "hardware" will fall off really hard, specially synthesizers ... they helped create DIGITAL ... and in a way they made themselves redundant ... things can be done all digital and the only reason to get a hardware synth these days ... is ... the knobs and the sliders! I'm resigned to the software and am enjoying the trip through the synth world via those and now am learning to record things with Live/ProTools and so on ... If I had picked up a synthesizer ... it would probably slow me down right now ... unless you are looking to also learn how to play keyboard (piano like) ... and then you still have to figure out what to do with it all. I'm finding that the software synthesizers/keyboards are much more complete ... they may not have the "glow" and the "glory" of owning a Jupiter 8, or a Prophet 5 ... or a Yamaha DX7 ... however, your ability to "compose" and "envision" something comes to the fore in 3 seconds flat! If you are looking to play in a band ... then yes, a synth is a must ... although I think I would consider having a computer and monitor with a midi keyboard on a stage ten times before I would consider having a synthesizer these days! Portability is sometimes an issue you know? And digital is now digital and the debate of which is better is almost mute ... digital will be way better in 5 more years ...