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ghost_of_morphy
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2755
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Posted: November 01 2007 at 01:27 |
puma wrote:
"progressive" is a term used to talk about the progressive rock MOVEMENT, not a GENRE. The movement ended in the 70s and there have been countless revival bands, reformed classic bands, and bands who play in the spirit of the old ones. But this crap where everyone uses the word "prog" like it's a genre bothers me. It's just another method of pigeonholing, and in turn it trivializes the music. |
Surely categorizing does not trivialize the music. It can trivialize the listener when the category becomes more important than the music, but the music retains whatever worth it had to be bestowed upon a more open-minded listener.
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Sckxyss
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 05 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1319
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Posted: November 01 2007 at 02:47 |
puma wrote:
"progressive" is a term used to talk about the progressive rock MOVEMENT, not a GENRE. The movement ended in the 70s and there have been countless revival bands, reformed classic bands, and bands who play in the spirit of the old ones. But this crap where everyone uses the word "prog" like it's a genre bothers me. It's just another method of pigeonholing, and in turn it trivializes the music. |
Interesting, although, compare your claim to another style - rock. There was rock in the 70s, and there's rock now. Most people refer to 70s rock as "classic rock", while still acknowledging that modern music can also be rock. Why not refer to 70s prog as classic prog?
If the term progressive was not used in progressive metal, how would one acknowledge the obvious compositional improvement over conventional metal?
I don't really believe prog has a sound, but is more an attitude towards writing music - music that is more complex or intricate than mainstream music.
In response to the original post, the only time saying "X is more prog than Y" makes sense to me is when the comparison is obvious (between a symphonic prog band and a prog related band, for example). I'd never try to argue that Magma is more prog than Genesis though... it's all too subjective at that point.
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andu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 27 2006
Location: Romania
Status: Offline
Points: 3089
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Posted: November 01 2007 at 03:34 |
Sckxyss wrote:
I'd never try to argue that Magma is more prog than Genesis though... it's all too subjective at that point. |
And of course, if you did then you would suffer the wrath of The Bard...
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Casartelli
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 17 2006
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 401
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Posted: November 01 2007 at 06:50 |
I think the discussions about prog as a genre description (indepedent of that being as inventive or regressive as can be) and progressiveness in the sense of invention have been done to death. There's no real consensus and for that matter I prefer to only use the abbrevation "prog" when describing the genre and to avoid the word "progressive" if I describe the inventive music of a band that I don't consider part of the prog genre. Just a personal approach, but take it if you like it. :)
Of all past (=before today) music there is a certain informal consensus whether it's prog (and in what genre) or between which genres it crosses over or which genre it's close to. Most users seem quite content with the distribution of bands into genres and, to a lesser extent, also with the inclusion of the PP/PR categories to include some borderline cases. Bringing back a band to comparison with other bands might seem a negative approach, it's often the only really insightful way to categorise a band and heralding virtually every band as "a genre on its own" comes across quite cliche-ish as well.
So we're left with the most difficult thing: categorising today's inventive music that we can not really bring home. Well... this forum might be a good place.
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puma
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2007
Location: Boston, MA
Status: Offline
Points: 484
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 13:36 |
That's a really good point. It's very easy to define "progressive" music from the past, but modern music is much harder to categorize. Just like how nobody really called it "progressive rock" in the 70s until it was almost over, we don't know what to call our music now. We'll think of something, just wait 8 or 9 years.
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MajesterX
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 30 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 513
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 14:17 |
There are two kinds of music- what you like and what you don't.
I don't listen for a band's "progressiveness" in the context of the 70's movement or any other cult prog movement in the past 20 years.
I agree with Ghost Rider on this. Rating a band's "proginess" is impractical and detracts from their music. I wish people would spend less time categorizing and judging and more time listening and thinking!
This site is a resource to those wishing to explore the music of the big 70's bands put in the progressive rock category as well as those that have been influenced by them to create their own evolution (or just as often, nostalgic stagnation) of music.
You can't judge a group's "progressiveness" because it can be interpreted in a million different ways. We'll never come to a consensus as to who's "more prog" and I hope we never try.
Edited by MajesterX - November 03 2007 at 14:18
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Dean
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout
Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 37575
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Posted: November 03 2007 at 14:43 |
puma wrote:
That's a really good point. It's very easy to define "progressive" music from the past, but modern music is much harder to categorize. Just like how nobody really called it "progressive rock" in the 70s until it was almost over, we don't know what to call our music now. We'll think of something, just wait 8 or 9 years. |
Au contraire my friend. In the UK it was called Progressive from the early 70s onwards, (the terms Progressive Music and Progressive Blues go back to 1969) the shortenning to Prog happened a little later, but not much.
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What?
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ProgShine
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 04 2005
Location: Kalisz, Poland
Status: Offline
Points: 1256
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Posted: November 04 2007 at 00:46 |
Really don't know, for me, EVERYTHING I WANT is prog, and f***-*** everything about, i think Prog is a state of mind, not a style of music, and for me, and for me, Prog has all the styles in one. It's it!
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https://progshinerecords.bandcamp.com
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