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Between Magma and John Coltrane.

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Stigfzm View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 29 2024 at 04:48
       Hello, guys. This post is for anybody like me who are interested in Magma's music.
       I've been enjoying Magma since this January, meaning not long after, it will be my first anniversary of my love for such incredible Kobaian Prog Band. Officially published Magma documentaries, interviews and other numerous videos that enable me to enrich knowledge have been played so many times. Additionally, I've also been relishing John Coltrane's jazz, the major influence which Christian Vander, the core of Magma, drew from. I really love the music of Magma and Coltrane, most of which I've understood instead of one thing: their connections inbetween.
       It was clear that Christian intended to carry on the musical legacy of John Coltrane as he set off to create the legend of Magma. The question is, what are the particular Coltrane features that have appeared in Magma's celestial music? Despite Jazz, I can't really tell the traces of Coltrane music from the mythical, ethereal and fearful notes of Magma. It could be argued that Magma's dark energy was produced by the trauma Vander had gone through before (or perhaps the tragic death of Coltrane), and that is what Magma is fascinating about. Nonetheless, little knowledge and ability restrict me from telling how Coltrane has influenced Vander's music.
        This is the great opportunity for me to learn something real about how to deeply understand prog and perhaps, musical theories if I can have such great honour to receive your marvellous teaching. Please leave your posts below if you are interested. Thank you.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2024 at 10:13
I love both, but I've never really heard much Coltrane in Magma's music myself. Magma started out as a eccentric jazz rock ensemble, and I can perhaps trace a spiritual connection in songs such as Sohïa and Naü Ektila (two of my favorite compostions in all of "Progressive Rock"). But honestly, if I didn't know about Coltrane's major influence on Vander, I would never have thought about it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stigfzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2024 at 02:41
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I love both, but I've never really heard much Coltrane in Magma's music myself. Magma started out as a eccentric jazz rock ensemble, and I can perhaps trace a spiritual connection in songs such as Sohïa and Naü Ektila (two of my favorite compostions in all of "Progressive Rock"). But honestly, if I didn't know about Coltrane's major influence on Vander, I would never have thought about it.


The problem is: in Magma's documentary (To Life, Death and Beyond), Christian clearly stated that Coltrane was the main influence. From that documentary, it feels like, Christian is almost Coltrane's disciple. But how Coltrane influenced him has been always a mystery. 
Consider this: if Coltrane lived to hear Magma, what would be his reaction?
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meAsoi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote meAsoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2024 at 04:43
Magma's surreal "zeuhl" element indeed seems like it honours Coltrane by artfully combining spirituality concepts with the avant-garde attitude.
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Stigfzm View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Stigfzm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2024 at 08:07
Originally posted by meAsoi meAsoi wrote:

Magma's surreal "zeuhl" element indeed seems like it honours Coltrane by artfully combining spirituality concepts with the avant-garde attitude.

That has a point. You give an idea that, perhaps, the dark energy that Magma owns is aligned with the hard notes from John Coltrane.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mellotron Storm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2024 at 08:23
What about the sax? Magma's first three albums featured plenty of sax, but after that not so much. Did Teddy Lasry play in Coltrane's style? I don't think Seffer did.There were two sax players on their first two albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2024 at 10:51
I read somewhere in the late 1970's that Christian Vander's three main influences were John Coltrane, Otis Redding and Carl Orff (and probably Stravinsky was mentioned) but its always been very clear that he was very into African and black music of all sorts, that much 'Soul' music moved him deeply as did Spiritual music of many hues. Reading between the lines slightly, i also felt he had an interest in Islamic culture and the Old Testament but i have nothing (that i know of) to back this up. Perhaps it is this interest in 'spiritual discipline' that has been (in some part) misinterpreted in the past?  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote meAsoi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 30 2024 at 16:41
Originally posted by Stigfzm Stigfzm wrote:

Originally posted by meAsoi meAsoi wrote:

Magma's surreal "zeuhl" element indeed seems like it honours Coltrane by artfully combining spirituality concepts with the avant-garde attitude.

That has a point. You give an idea that, perhaps, the dark energy that Magma owns is aligned with the hard notes from John Coltrane.
"Köhntarkösz" is, for example, one of those Magma tracks that featured extended instrumental sections where, not without a hint of a spiritual dimension, the band members engage in reminiscence of Coltrane's free-jazz exaltations.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThyroidGlands Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 31 2024 at 17:32
I’m not going to contribute anything to the thread. I’m simply going to say that, like you, I listened to and loved Magma in January of this year (and along with that, the discovery of the best music in the galaxy: zeuhl). Best band of all worlds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2025 at 07:06
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:

I read somewhere in the late 1970's that Christian Vander's three main influences were John Coltrane, Otis Redding and Carl Orff (and probably Stravinsky was mentioned) ...

Hi,

I'm not sure Stravinsky would be a good choice or influence for him ... the incredible all over the place that Stravinsky uses, is not exactly evident in MAGMA ... not to mention that Christian Vander's way of "conducting" is a sign on his drumming, (usually a change in the snare drum, and/or a very hard hit different than the rest of the drumming) that the singers and players followed onto a new part of the piece. I suppose it is very mechanical at that point, and the last thing we can say about Stravinsky is that he is mechanical ... well ... with all due respect to alligators and other animals having some fun to his music!

The only way we would be able to find parallels between MAGMA and COLTRANE was if we could take a simplified score, and put them side by side, and we might find some bits and pieces that seem to show signs that they are similar, but I think that study would be way too hard and endless to get somewhere ... it's like me saying The Beatles are my inspiration ... and that would be so far off the mark it's not funny ... I was into Berlioz, Strauss, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, Stravinsky, Albinoni, Vivaldi and many others before I was even 15 and heard the Beatles and the Rolling Stones in Brazil!

Pretty much all my thoughts and notes about music, and specially progressive, have a more direct route to classical music than anything else! It's the main reason why I'm not a fan of the numbers and the lists of favorites ... honestly, I have no favorites ... there are too many things I love dearly!


Edited by moshkito - January 04 2025 at 07:10
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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