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Quebec's Prog: The Best Prog in North America?

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Hrychu View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 17 2024 at 04:23
It's a very peculiar case, because everything the French-Quebecois do is somehow inferior to the same thing done by the French people from France (animation, comedy, TV shows, you name it).... except for progressive rock.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2024 at 04:27
Originally posted by Iantumaros Iantumaros wrote:

Rock progressif québécois has undeniably forged a remarkable legacy, artfully amalgamating a plethora of musical influences that render it not merely prominent within Canada but also illustrious across the North American continent. Esteemed ensembles such as Harmonium, Pollen, Maneige, Séguin, and Sloche have made profound contributions to this movement, their masterworks resonating on a global scale. 
Perhaps that feature stems from Quebec’s unique European ambiance, an essence that is remarkably absent elsewhere on the continent?


Hey Svettie,

I think you over-estimate La Belle province's prog band's influenceness even inside the rest of canada, let alone the North Am continent or even French-speaking Europe. Few of those bands ventured out west, and when one if them reached Toronto, it was almost an exploit or lifetime achievement.

The 70's were difficult time for Canada & Quebec with the sovereignty crisis looming over the second biggest land. There was much resentment over Quebec's will to separate, because it threatened the country's land continuity and losing the Maritimes Provinces (out east) to the US was a possibility many Ontarians dreaded. Furthermore, at the height of the crisis (75/77) in the middle of the cold war, the US amassed troops along the Quebec border in the possibilty of interference from Cuba and the Soviets.

Soooo, there was resentment towards anything french/Quebec, not just in Toronto, but out west (Alberta mainly). Whatever French-speakers outside Quebec were in small cities or villages or countryside of New Brunswick (45% of the population) and Northern Ontario (40%), but elsewhere it was rarely over 5%. Sure, at the height of the crisis (75-77), the 400K Montrealers that oved towards Southern Ontario made Totonto's economic power ever since (Montreal had been #1 until then), but it didn't make it a bilingual city (despite the province being officialy so).

I had many buddies and non-buddies that resorted to the "they lost the late XVIIIth C and early XIXth C wars, so f**k them froggies" type of argument. You can easily imagine that's +/- less what happened between Belgrade and the rest of the Yugo republcs in the early 90's, but thankfully, the Independance referendum was delayed until things had cooled down - and the unofficial economic embargo weakened wills. 

What I'm trying to say past this political context is that there was little any interest for anything Frencho-Quebec in terms of cultural matters; especially that if Montreal looked a lot at Paris (despite denying it), Toronto was getting the flu when London was sneezing. Worlds apart really, despite thousands of young Totontonites moving out to Montreal to party every week-ends (looser alcohol laws and promiscuous women).

Of course in artistic circles, this was much less a problem, but I can't say that I saw many of those Québécois bands in Toronto during the 70's, and once I was mobile in the early 80's, most of the Quebec prog scene had vanished into oblivion, as the disco tsunami killed everything over-there.



============

Now sure, we can discuss about those band's influences nationally or worldwide, but none were Genesis, Crimson or Yes or Kansas.

Sooo, yes, Quebec was the main point of entry for bands like VdGG and GG, but also Supertramp and Genesis.

Outside The Prog-Quebec team (two anglophones from Montreal), there is little interest in reviving that era's music, because it brings out a sense of defeat (or so methinks) to the population. Sure Harmonium's Fiori is a living God on TV nowadays, but most of the crowd still think of the hippie attitude as negative.


===========

Personally while I'm responsible of lobbying PA's quebecois owners of this site to include most of the Quebec bands here, few were really groundbreaking.

FTM, I'd even tend to think that the most inventive aspects of the "scene" was into "electronic prog" with Michel Madore (the Komuso), Dionne-Brégent and Pascal Languirand (though he was often in Paris), rather than the symphonic, folkish or JR/F aspects. Sadly, only D-B has been reissued on CD, which gives you an idea about the "influence" the whole scene might've had.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2024 at 05:29
Originally posted by Iantumaros Iantumaros wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:



Hey Svettie,


===========
You have evidently mistaken me for another individual.
Ah. Don't worry about that. On this forum, there is this sorta running gag that whenever a new user pops up and starts nerding hard about prog rock, we jokingly state that it's one of Svetonios many reincarnations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 17 2024 at 06:17
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

Originally posted by Iantumaros Iantumaros wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:



Hey Svettie,
===========
You have evidently mistaken me for another individual.
Ah. Don't worry about that. On this forum, there is this sorta running gag that whenever a new user pops up and starts nerding hard about prog rock, we jokingly state that it's one of Svetonios many reincarnations.

The sad thing is that it was Svetty in those contexts. 
(I think it's a Svetty clone now as well)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sean Trane Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 18 2024 at 02:41
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:


FTM, I'd even tend to think that the most inventive aspects of the "scene" was into "electronic prog" with Michel Madore (the Komuso), Dionne-Brégent and Pascal Languirand (though he was often in Paris), rather than the symphonic, folkish or JR/F aspects. Sadly, only D-B has been reissued on CD, which gives you an idea about the "influence" the whole scene might've had.

.



full album for Minos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6RiHvTX_Vk&list=OLAK5uy_nvh-Voy-eCpbUw60voPmL8oK93WI2wJBc


Edited by Sean Trane - December 18 2024 at 04:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrufordFreak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2024 at 15:58
The 1970s' bands from Québec that I know lead me to support the supposition that << rock progressif québécois >> as a whole is superior to that of the other North American countries of that era. I really like Harmonium, Pollen, Maneige, Séguin, Sloche, Conventum, Octobre, and Opus-5. As a whole I think they fully trump Mexico's Nirgal Vallis and Decibel, and even Nazca, Galié, Iconocasta, and Delirium (from the 1980s), and I definitely like them better than America's collective of Kansas, Happy The Man, Yezda Urfa, Utopia, The Residents, Pavlov's Dog, Captain Beyond, Sparks, Babylon, Cathedral, and Crack The Sky. (I'm leaving out the jazz-rock fusion artists and Zappa, whatever he was. Put in all the J-R Fuse artists and it's no contest, but many people participating in this thread will not equate Jazz-Rock Fusion with "Progressive Rock".)



Edited by BrufordFreak - December 25 2024 at 15:59
Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 25 2024 at 16:07
Originally posted by Bruford Freak Bruford Freak wrote:

Utopia
I strongly disagree! Todd Rundgren's Utopia was an incredible achievement in technical experimentation and musical finesse. Those guys were already cutting edge when the Quebec prog movement was in its pre-infancy stage. If there is one North American 70s progressive rock band that showcases the level of excellence akin to the British pioneers such as Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant et al., it's Utopia.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2024 at 07:36
It is no stretch to call 70's Quebec prog the apex of NA prog.

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The next on the totem pole ,I hazard, would be mid-west prog. Bands like:Ethos,Albatros,Starcastle.



I find midwest prog of the 70s to be less experimental than Quebec and tinged towards AOR.


As to Ontario prog, you could count them with fingers of both hands. As the case with Ireland, Ontario 70s/early 80s prog lps number the scanty: The Hunt (first lp),Another Roadside Attraction,Symphonic Slam,True Myth,Terraced Garden,Spirit of Christmas, Dillinger,Saga,FM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2024 at 09:37
Disagree. Lots of world class prog acts from the rest of Canada and North America.

Canada outside of Quebec: Rush, Warpig, Saga,

USA: Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Santana, Chango, Sweet Smoke, Kansas, Happy The Man, McLuhan, Pavlov's Dog, The Muffins, Utopia, Yezda Urfa, Mirthrandir, Captain Beyond, Polyphony, Miles Davis, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Herbie Hancock, Billy Cobham (born in Panama though), Return To Forever, Al Di Meola, Oregon, Friends, John Abercrombie, Codona, Dixie Dregs, Pat Metheny etc (i could go on)

Of course as far as Canada goes Montreal pretty much ruled as far as inventive prog bands go probably because Quebec had a closer affinity to the European scene given its French heritage as opposed to the rest of Canada looking southbound to the US

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2024 at 12:03
I said MIDWEST (Illinois,Nebraska...), not the whole of America. (And not fusion).    With exception of Polyphony, all those you mention are not midwest.(function(){function c(){var b=a.contentDocument||a.contentWindow.document;if(b){var d=b.createElement('script');d.innerHTML="window.__CF$cv$params={r:'8f8354b38fed3a04',t:'MTczNTIzOTgwNi4wMDAwMDA='};var a=document.createElement('script');a.nonce='';a.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(a);";b.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(d)}}if(document.body){var a=document.createElement('iframe');a.height=1;a.width=1;a.style.position='absolute';a.style.top=0;a.style.left=0;a.style.border='none';a.style.visibility='hidden';document.body.appendChild(a);if('loading'!==document.readyState)c();else if(window.addEventListener)document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',c);else{var e=document.onreadystatechange||function(){};document.onreadystatechange=function(b){e(b);'loading'!==document.readyState&&(document.onreadystatechange=e,c())}}}})();< height="1" width="1" style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: none; visibility: ;">
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2024 at 13:20
^ and why do you think i was responding to you? If that were the case i would've quoted you or used an UP arrow. I was responding to the premise of the thread Approve

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tobique Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2024 at 15:55
correction:  Yezda Urfa and McLuhan (I had to pull out my lp) are Chicago/area.(function(){function c(){var b=a.contentDocument||a.contentWindow.document;if(b){var d=b.createElement('script');d.innerHTML="window.__CF$cv$params={r:'8f84a5849bf8a229',t:'MTczNTI1MzYwMi4wMDAwMDA='};var a=document.createElement('script');a.nonce='';a.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(a);";b.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(d)}}if(document.body){var a=document.createElement('iframe');a.height=1;a.width=1;a.style.position='absolute';a.style.top=0;a.style.left=0;a.style.border='none';a.style.visibility='hidden';document.body.appendChild(a);if('loading'!==document.readyState)c();else if(window.addEventListener)document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded',c);else{var e=document.onreadystatechange||function(){};document.onreadystatechange=function(b){e(b);'loading'!==document.readyState&&(document.onreadystatechange=e,c())}}}})();< height="1" width="1" style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: none; visibility: ;">

And, of course, Kansas are midwest.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2024 at 17:26
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:


Disagree. Lots of world class prog acts from the rest of Canada and North America.

Canada outside of Quebec: Rush, Warpig, Saga,

USA:
Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, Santana, Chango, Sweet Smoke, Kansas,
Happy The Man, McLuhan, Pavlov's Dog, The Muffins, Utopia, Yezda Urfa,
Mirthrandir, Captain Beyond, Polyphony, Miles Davis, Mahavishnu
Orchestra, Herbie Hancock, Billy Cobham (born in Panama though), Return
To Forever, Al Di Meola, Oregon, Friends, John Abercrombie, Codona,
Dixie Dregs, Pat Metheny etc (i could go on)

Of
course as far as Canada goes Montreal pretty much ruled as far as
inventive prog bands go probably because Quebec had a closer affinity to
the European scene given its French heritage as opposed to the rest of
Canada looking southbound to the US


Great list, it saves me the trouble. But let's mention However, Atlantis Philharmonic, Larry Coryell & Eleventh House, [Kansas precursor] Proto-Kaw, Starcastle and Synergy, anyway.

As for Cobham, his family moved to Brooklyn when he was three, and he was drafted by the US Army in '65, so that makes him American however which way you cut it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2024 at 18:20
Originally posted by BrufordFreak BrufordFreak wrote:

The 1970s' bands from Québec that I know lead me to support the supposition that << rock progressif québécois >> as a whole is superior to that of the other North American countries of that era. I really like Harmonium, Pollen, Maneige, Séguin, Sloche, Conventum, Octobre, and Opus-5. As a whole I think they fully trump Mexico's Nirgal Vallis and Decibel, and even Nazca, Galié, Iconocasta, and Delirium (from the 1980s), and I definitely like them better than America's collective of Kansas, Happy The Man, Yezda Urfa, Utopia, The Residents, Pavlov's Dog, Captain Beyond, Sparks, Babylon, Cathedral, and Crack The Sky. (I'm leaving out the jazz-rock fusion artists and Zappa, whatever he was. Put in all the J-R Fuse artists and it's no contest, but many people participating in this thread will not equate <span style="font-size: medium;">Jazz-Rock Fusion with</span> "Progressive Rock".)


Iconoclasta's lineup changes but they continue to record. They're one of the first non-"Big 6/7/8/9/10" bands I learned of and got into and still like (a lot). I don't think they're "inferior" to anything produced within the boundary of Quebec.

Todd Rundgren's Utopia's first three albums are primo prog rock. I don't see how anyone can down-rate them, unless you just don't like Todd's voice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jaketejas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2024 at 20:39
Don’t forget the Prog from Nunavut like Northern Haze and The Jerry Cans
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Licantropho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2025 at 09:23
Curiosly I've just discover this Québec Prog Scene and I'm amazed by the quality I'm finding here! 
Honestly, the only band I knew from Québec was Miriodor, as far as i know.

I didn't know this amazing contemporary-classic influenced Prog from the mid 70's! And I like it!! So I tend to agree with the provocative question! 
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