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Nudity in Film |
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MortSahlFan 
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Joined: March 01 2018 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 3073 |
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 Topic: Nudity in FilmPosted: February 02 2024 at 11:01 |
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It takes so many years to get out of the prude censorship, to a time when women would say, "The body is beautiful" or "If using my body gets me a better job, so be it, more power to me and all women" and there's also some that think it's degradation. Of course, they are not in the movie, or any movie, but they know mentioning it gets them views/money, and the lawyers are involved, and there's pressure maybe to not show skin (especially now when everyone knows their audiences), but there's also some directors who might not have any plans to show breasts, but changes their mind.. Maybe the producer is pressuring the director about how much they spent, and how showing some boobs will increase viewership, using it as a tag-line... When I was a teen, I remember people going to see movies ONLY because of nudity. "Halle Berry shows her boobs in 'Swordfish'" (I didn't see it, but I could always see a clip if I was THAT interested). Once the Hays Code was lifted, nudity wasn't just used for the hell of it in good movies. I would hope we could self-censor, because I find most of them corny. Not the nudity, but the silly scene itself. Be real, or be creative with a scene in "Ryan's Daughter", or not, but it seems there's so many groups who might not care, but know it's the currency of the moment, and "sex sells". If there's a man and woman kissing, and the picture dissolves, I know what's going to happen next, and it might be best to move to the next scene, but again, there should be more than 2 approaches - artistic vs. exploitation. What really bugs me is when people I know will make a comment on a movie in retrospect, when they said the opposite a few years ago, but they know it doesn't pay, and that's what bugs me... People are being fooled, and everything becomes so personalized, that so many I talk with are becoming echoes. "Yeah, Trump said exactly the same sentence word for word" but that in of itself becomes a way to dismiss something with the guilt of association. Here's a documentary if you're interested. I saw some of it and might resume later if it's any good.
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JD
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Joined: February 07 2009 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18446 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 11:49 |
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Oddest post I've seen/read in a long time. I have to ask...Mort, WTF is going on man ?? There has to be a backstory there. I could take what you said here and substitute Violence or Killing in place of Nudity. What's your point. Too much Nudity, not enough nudity, nudity in the wrong place, only female nudity. I suggest you watch 'The Righteous Gemstones' Season 3 Episode 06 'For Out of the Heart Comes Evil Thoughts'. I'd love to hear your take on THAT nudity. Can you understand why Kubrick had shown Nicole Kidman peeing in 'Eyes Wide Shut' ? Because that's what we do in real life. And, yea sure, obviously it gets used for titillation. 75% of advertising proves that point.
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The Dark Elf
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VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13215 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 13:14 |
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Although I have nothing to add to this stimulating conversation, I will keep abreast of the dialogue.
Edited by The Dark Elf - February 02 2024 at 13:15 |
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verslibre
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Joined: July 01 2004 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 18512 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 13:39 |
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Seconded. 
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Cristi
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Crossover / Prog Metal Teams Joined: July 27 2006 Location: wonderland Status: Offline Points: 45581 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 13:59 |
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and I looked up the expression "keep abreast" because I wasn't sure what it meant.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18044 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 22:25 |
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Hi,
The more interesting thing would be a documentary on "sex in film" about Europe where the industry was not controlled by Hollywood and other rich boys pretending to protect their fortunes, but still finding ways to get past the "regulations". I always thought that the violence in WW1 and WW2 that destroyed so much of Europe ended up affecting their film industry almost opposite what happened in America ... here, it looked like violence was important and it sold, along with some sex here and there, of course! I think, and not sure how to say this, that the European film, in general, was more personal and that it allowed a bit more freedom about a lot of things, and it may have started with the reactions to the politics in various countries (Italy a great example), and all of a sudden became a bunch of films with sexy this and that (Italy showcased voluptuous women), and this helped open up a lot of things in film around Europe. But some things were tough ... Luis Bunuel had some serious issues with Spain, not to mention that its government was responsible for trying hard to destroy all the artistic communities ... and it was something that also took place in Portugal, and to a lesser degree in Italy where the commercial interests immediately realized the potential of the large breasts and the combination of various stars. The other side of things, is the church and its role in a lot of European films ... after WW2 it became the censor, and a lot of Europeans did not like the censorship and some of the "cuts" and moments that were removed from films can be seen in "Cinema Paradiso" film ... it might not have been exact, but it was very close. This is a very difficult topic ... and the SKIN film takes on the fairly thorough history of Hollywood and making sure that they found a way to counter any attempt at censors preventing them from making their films. The censorship, in Europe was more political. Here it was a religious idea and system that made definitions of what could be seen and such. And eventually if fell apart, however, in America the TV screen has not been broken up yet, and the material is as banal as ever, although private groups and promoters do their own thing for a subscription, and have done well with it ... and then Hollywood wonders why the film theaters are empty. But there are some issues that the film makes clear in terms of abuse and other unsavory moments for women, which we don't seem to find, or hear about in Europe much for some reason, but I think that the issue here is the lack of honesty and the "control" that producers and filmmakers have in America ... in Europe, by comparison the film is much less expensive without all the ridiculous and over abundant shots and stt they still do after 100 years that can be done better and cheaper with less people! Thus, I think that this makes for films that allow for more nudity to take place, without all the glamour and news media in America hounding the picture for salacious details. There are not many American films that I find sexy and interesting ... sometimes I think they have to use the surprise factor, or the keyhole factor, to get it across, and to me, it makes it not be quite sexy at all ... sexual yes, sexy no! But it kinda suggests that a lot of the films had the situations ... BECAUSE ... it was another front for something else. I have never felt this in just about any European films, where many times the event is more in touch with the story and the character, than it is with having to do/say something to rile up censors' or get around them! One slight note about the film, is one of the quotes about Sir John Gielgud when he told Malcolm McDowell what he had seen ... and you and I, don't realize that he was gay! Which changes the idea about the line ... and makes it funny all of a sudden, instead of "shocking". Reminds me of that long series, several years worth that PLAYBOY had an article on sex in the cinema and it basically told you all the sexy stuff out there everywhere. One of the best things in these were that it listed a lot of European films ... and helped you learn more about many other actors and actresses.
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moshkito
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Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18044 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 22:48 |
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Hi,
Stanley Kubrick is not a good example for "nudity" at all ... and the moments with Nicole Kidman, for me, are gratuitous, and I'm not sure they accomplish what he might have wanted. Compare this to LOLITA, which is not a sexy/sexual film at all ... but the dialog lines are some of the most suggestive ever, and very much in touch with the way "lines" were delivered in English Theater at the time ... you want to make sure that no one misses a beat in those lines ... even when Shelly Winters tells James Mason about Lolita going to get one of her "cavities" filled! Of all the better known film groups, I think France has the most interesting and better of the nude filming, and they seem to make sure that it is a part of the character, and you know it! I always thought that Italy's stuff was more about the show than the go. English material is crazy and odd, although it started in the 60's to proclaim itself in "artistic" works in film. Eventually it loosens up and goes all over the place in PERFORMANCE, and I think from then on the sexualization of Theresa Russell by Nicolas Roeg who had filmed one of the sexiest scenes in film that is breathtaking ... Donald Sutherland and Julie Christie in an incredible moment, which is so vital to the film and its story. Later, Milena is sort of abused and taken advantage of (BAD TIMING/A SENSUAL OBSESSION), and then a couple of films where she does her thing ... which becomes more sexual than worth watching but it is so well filmed by Nicolas Roeg that it makes it difficult not to enjoy watching it. And all of a sudden, one of the "sexiest" moments in a Nicola Roeg film in with Oliver Reed and Amanda Donohoe ... and it has no sex ... his character whispers in her ear ... isn't this better than sex? French films are strong and I don't think there is an actress in their films that did not do these scenes at all, to the point of Jeanne Moreau (now I'm not sure if this wasn't Juliet Binoche) even explains what it like to walk nude in read a book out loud ... but many other actresses get into their role very well, which in many ways might even suggest that the physical side of things here are very different from America.
Edited by moshkito - February 02 2024 at 22:49 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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siLLy puPPy
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic Joined: October 05 2013 Location: SFcaUsA Status: Offline Points: 15342 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 23:12 |
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This one is easy..... porn. (function(){var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'84f884a06be6fabe',t:'MTcwNjk0MDcwMi44NjUwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">
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richardh
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Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Online Points: 29335 |
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Posted: February 02 2024 at 23:43 |
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I have bought some film DVD's because of the nudity. The sci fi film Lifeforce has a lot of it although it was interesting to listen to the cast's views on it in a later documentary (one of the cast was Star Trek's Patrick Stewart before he got the Jean Luc Picard role). It was total exploitation for not good reasons but dare I say still a fun film (and exceedingly gory).
A notorious British film for many years was Straw Dogs. Susan George had to get her kit off. After she auditioned and got the part, Sam Peckinpah and Dustin Hoffman invited her to the studio. She walked into the room they were in and both of them were sitting in their chairs buck naked! |
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moshkito
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Posted: February 03 2024 at 09:53 |
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Hi, In general, I do not. However, I tend to look for some films that are totally neurotic to the point of ... being silly ... and so on and so forth. A lot of these end up having a lot of nudity running around, but it is very different from the American style ... for some reason a lot of the nudity in a Spanish/French/Italian/German films tend to have it more "natural" and the camera is not setup to show you a centerfold, which is the American way. I suppose that we owe Playboy a thanks, no? Some films where the sexuality is up front that I can remember really well. Bad Timing/A Sensual Obsession Blow Up Castaway (Nicolas Roeg's) Performance Tess The Cook, The Thief, His Wife and Her Lover The Crying Game Women in Love Belle du Jour Daughters of Darkness Irreversible Matador The Lover High Heels Nicolas Roeg, used a lot of nudity with his wife Theresa Russell. Ken Russell, tended to overdo the physical element in many of his films going back to Dante Gabriel Rossetti. and then creating silliness for Tommy and Liztomania. Luis Bunuel, did not have nudity per se, but in some of the later films, the women might as well be naked. Jean-Luc Godard, was not about nudity, but his use of it in many of his films is way out in left field. Pedro Almodovar, is more about the wording than the actual nudity. But it is always there right from his early days, and going back to Assumpta Serna going crazy in Matador Gaspar Noe uses a lot of sex in his films and it can go from the right moment to the worst moment. His attitude, I think comes from ... "I don't care!" and he films it. It would have been interesting if he had filmed more stuff that was more porn than a film! Though I think the sex would normally turn violent, I bet! "Enter The Void" is crazy and ends up being very psychedelic and some porn websites, have even stolen some things he did in the film! Peter Greenaway is the king of the nudies. And many of his films are so forward with it to the point that many folks likely get queasy about it. But in some instances, the dancing/choreography around the naked body is insane, and amazing and an incredible spectacle. Check out the stuff i "Prospero's Books" and then the short in the "Not Mozart" film, which is insanely beautiful. Edited by moshkito - February 03 2024 at 09:56 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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MortSahlFan
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Posted: February 03 2024 at 13:42 |
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I started a documentary https://www.amazon.com/Skin-History-Nudity-Kevin-Smith/dp/B08DL6TZHF and wondered what people from all over the world think of it in general, over the years, because attitudes seem to change, or at least people say it. I've posted this elsewhere, and I like reading everyone's nuanced opinions.
Edited by MortSahlFan - February 03 2024 at 13:43 |
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Floydoid
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Posted: February 03 2024 at 13:49 |
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It seems that after the Hays Code was abandoned in the mid 1960's movies got more and more daring when it comes to nudity, and by the early 70's it was almost compulsory to have at least a flash of something or other.
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Is it any wonder that the monkey's confused?
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moshkito
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Posted: February 03 2024 at 18:22 |
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Hi, For the most part I think this was right. However, it was temporary since today, things are as bad as they were then, with the same companies still in control of the movies and the Television set ... and a somewhat different bunch of folks controlling streaming, which is more open to some nudity, but it still is ... almost ridiculous and sometimes bordering on the stupid and peep hole mentality. I have yet to see anything in streaming where the nudity is not gratuitous ... it just gets boring when you end up thinking that no one in Hollywood, or America, can write anything for the screen that is "natural", and not forced and stupid. It has to be teasing!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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The Dark Elf wrote: