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How does one go about making a really long song.
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Frets N Worries View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 27 2023 at 12:53
Not sure if this belongs here, or might belong in 'Music and Musicians Exchange' , but here we go. 

I was watching a video about the history of the long song, and thought it would be interesting to push the limits of that. Transatlantic did 'The Whirlwind' which is all one song. Porcupine Tree did The Incident, but that's listed as multiple tracks. I was thinking of doing a 2 hour song that tells a story, thematically linked, musically linked but less so. 

So if things like the Whirlwind are suites, would it just depend on what you say it is? 

Wondering for a future project, 

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Points: 5348 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2023 at 12:56
I construct my epics section by section in FL Studio, drums and melodic stuff separately, and then glue them into 1 in Reaper. To get more or less consistent sonic qualities across all parts, I very often recall effects chains from subproject to subproject.
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I made a suite, I constructed each piece in Bandlab, the bigger question I was thinking of is what differentiates between a really long suite vs shorter songs thematically linked. 
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Hi,

I'm not sure what I will say is gonna help ... but I'll try.

Go listen to the greatest symphonies ever written in the history of music. Stop thinking of it all as just a rock song, which is a problem ... since most folks don't really know how to "evolve" the music into something bigger and possibly better. Instead, they change the beat or adda "bridge" and then go somewhere else, and of course, here comes the guitar ... Funny how orchestras for hundreds of years never had a guitar and no one missed it ... and now, we don't even know how to listen to things without it!

Rock music, in general, has not exactly "grown up" from its basics, and the idea/fact that the main setup is still the same 70 years later, should tell you that along the way we have lost the ability to CREATE and DESIGN something different and new ... we always "default" to the same thing, process, and above all ... the worst ... a format!

If you want to extend something, and create a long piece, you have to tell any "format" to take a hike ... but I'll tell you that 9 out of 10 fans, even here, don't like that because all they are listening for is ... you gotta it ... the stuff they know and feel comfortable with ... think about Debussy and Stravinsky and many others that were not originally "appreciated" ... and today, we love them dearly. Which tells you all you need to know about an audience. 

If you want something longer, allow your imagination to move on and along ... don't stop for a bridge or a guitar or a (heaven forbid!) a drum solo. Forget the "solo" ... concentrate on the "full" experience of the music ... go look at the score sheets for many operas and symphonies and realize how so many instruments can come together and how 3 of them (and a cheap drummer) really ... sound like crap by comparison, not even discussing the composing elements within it.

Look up exercises in music for IMPROVISATION, so you can learn to "extend" your inner sight for music ... right now, I think you can only see a pop song (so to speak!).
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^Oh I'm going to experiment the heck outta this thing, and I'm not a drummer, it might not even have any drums. Movements, Motifs, and Much experimentation will go into this thing.

If you have 33 hours on your hands, check out 'The Rise and Fall of Bossovania by PC III, that's how to extend a piece to untold limits. (if untold was 33 hours, that's about 2 1/2 the Veatles catalouge) I've written the lyrics, it's just musically it could be tricky. Improv is something i've been experimenting with for a while, and i've been getting better at improv, in a sense
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You start with something and keep adding stuff on the end of it until you pass out. If you have a lot of bits and pieces laying around this is fairly easy to do. Since the bits and pieces (like between a minute and maybe five minutes long) all sound different the trick is making neat transitions between them. The longest song I ever made was 26:34. I do recall doing a 32+ minute long piece back in 2000, but mp3.com couldn't handle an mp3 file that big, so I cut it down to 18:11. I've never made just a long jam. The format never really interested me.

Lately I've been trying to avoid long pieces because most of my current ideas are experimenting with improvised chaos and occasional bouts of wall-of-noise fiascos that the human ear can only take in small doses. The current project I'm working on does have a piece that tops out at about 9 1/2 minutes, but most of them are under 6 minutes long.
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^I've got about 10 1/2 pages of lyrics written on a Google doc in various styles, and formats. This doesn't even include instrumental sections.I wonder how big I could make it... I am still going to keep writing lyrics
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Originally posted by progaardvark progaardvark wrote:

You start with something and keep adding stuff on the end of it until you pass out. If you have a lot of bits and pieces laying around this is fairly easy to do. Since the bits and pieces (like between a minute and maybe five minutes long) all sound different the trick is making neat transitions between them. The longest song I ever made was 26:34. I do recall doing a 32+ minute long piece back in 2000, but mp3.com couldn't handle an mp3 file that big, so I cut it down to 18:11. I've never made just a long jam. The format never really interested me.

Lately I've been trying to avoid long pieces because most of my current ideas are experimenting with improvised chaos and occasional bouts of wall-of-noise fiascos that the human ear can only take in small doses. The current project I'm working on does have a piece that tops out at about 9 1/2 minutes, but most of them are under 6 minutes long.

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Points: 4202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2023 at 05:09
^Longest sing I've made was about 22 minutes, and that was about 3 pages worth if lyrics and instrumental Passages. The one I'm thinking about making is 11 pages of lyrics. I plan to work on it until I pass put. Besides, it'll be a labor of love. Hopefully will be worth it, thank you all for input and suggestions.
The Wheel of Time Turns, and Ages come and pass. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time...
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