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Davesax1965 
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 2839
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 Topic: Musicians and depression
Posted: January 10 2017 at 02:54 |
A recent study by the University of Westminster revealed that nearly 70% of UK musicians suffered from depressive episodes - three times the national average. Now, that's a frightening figure. Yes, creative people can suffer from depression and this is possibly part of the make up of being ... artistic. But. 70% ? The survey concluded that *making* music was therapeutic, but trying to make money from it, or deal with gigs, venues or the business in general was destructive.
Couldn't agree more. I've stopped offering music to the general public and just jam with local musicians. I couldn't be happier.
Any other musicians have the same experience ?
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 2839
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 02:55 |
Here's one of many links.... just google "Musicians and depression".
"Another factor cited by survey participants was “a lack of recognition for one’s work and the welding of music and identity into one’s own idea of selfhood.”"
Edited by Davesax1965 - January 10 2017 at 02:57
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Davesax1965
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Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 03:01 |
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chopper
Special Collaborator
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 05:43 |
Interesting. I've never been in the position of having to make money from music as I do it mainly for enjoyment and if we happen to get paid for a gig then it's a bonus. I'm sure it's hard trying to make a living from it but is it any more stressful than trying to make a living any other way? Maybe there's something in a musician's mentality that makes them more susceptible?
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Davesax1965
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Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 05:53 |
Hi Chopper - I'm also not in the position from *having* to make music. Got a day job and money in the bank. However. When you release an album, offer one free track - downloaded 300 times - and get great reviews - but no one downloads the (pay for) album, preferring instead to listen to it on Bandcamp like a radio, you tend to think "Why am I doing this ? "
So I'm not. ;-)
The big thing in my life is making music, and has been for 40 years. Of late, dealing with the public dodging out of paying for any music whatsoever has convinced me that that's one aspect of music I don't want to get involved with. Not interested in fame or recognition or money, but nor am I interested in utter frustration or feeling like the fans are the main problem.
That's for me, anyway. Other peoples' experience may vary, but if so many musicians are totally pigged off with music, "there may be trouble ahead."
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CPicard
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Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 08:18 |
 chopper wrote:
Interesting. I've never been in the position of having to make money from music as I do it mainly for enjoyment and if we happen to get paid for a gig then it's a bonus. I'm sure it's hard trying to make a living from it but is it any more stressful than trying to make a living any other way? Maybe there's something in a musician's mentality that makes them more susceptible? |
Also, we should focus on the fact that this survey had been made in the UK: maybe the depression hits less musicians in other countries? In France (and other European countries), a lot of musical projects have financial helping from the public institutions; so, one can wonder if French musicians are as depressed as their British counterparts? It would be interesting to see if there are the same kind of surveys conducted in Germany, Italy, Russia... USA, Japan, etc... One of my brothers (both of them are semi-professional musicians, by the way) told me about one of his friends who stopped making music, because it gave him nothing but stress and anxiety: not only the money stuff, but also to deal with other musicians in the band, to achieve some projects... were hitting him on the nerves. But, well, it's ONE musician in Paris... Not sure it's very significant on a statistical/scientific point of view... 
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Vompatti
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 08:31 |
For me personally, making music alone in my room, not making any money out of it, and never performing in public, is the opposite of depressive. 
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Davesax1965
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Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Points: 2839
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 08:40 |
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Yep, that's what I wrote in the post above.
Making music is a positive thing.
Coping with the music business is a negative thing.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 08:42 |
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PS the survey was conducted in the UK but involved musicians from all over the world.
Following the link occasionally helps. ;-)
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Tapfret
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Joined: August 12 2007
Location: Bryant, Wa
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 09:02 |
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The study wants to correlate the depressing effects of music as an industry, not the other way around. We are looking at the misery caused by it and NOT true clinical depression. The article does not point out how many of these folks were actually diagnosed vs just reported depression and anxiety. I see no mention of the classic manifestation of misery into art. Some, maybe even most, of the greatest musical creations were spawned by people who were depressed long before being musicians (or any other type of artist.
Edited by Tapfret - January 10 2017 at 09:05
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
Location: Europe
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 13:01 |
This study seems to be more than a little flawed. While I don't doubt the results of the survey I do have doubts the leading nature of the questions asked and the resulting conclusions drawn from the answers. Of course there is a degree of journalistic sensationalism in the reporting but there is a fundamental question of cause and effect here. Does being a musician result in a higher risk of being depressive or is being a depressive more likely to steer someone towards being a musician? While I dislike speculating on anyone's mental health and would shy away from crass generalisations perhaps music as a release for depression leads more depressive-type people to become musicians in the first place, while the therapeutic nature of playing may alleviate some of the symptoms of depression the failure to cope with underlying cause of that depression is then compounded by the pressures and stress of actually being a performer. However, I suspect that there is no single simple explanation for any correlation between depression and being a musician so each case must be regarded individually. Like others have noted, all occupations can be stressful, lead to anxiety and panic attacks and get depressed on a regular basis
Frankly: 'These preliminary findings also suggest that “working in the ____ industry might indeed be making ____ians sick,” according to the report. Reasons cited by respondents for their mental ill-health include “poor working conditions,” such as “the difficulty of sustaining a living, anti-social working hours, exhaustion, and the inability to plan their time/future.” Another factor cited by survey participants was “a lack of recognition for one’s work and the welding of _____ and identity into one’s own idea of selfhood.' - can be applied to any occupation if you ask those who work in those industries similar questions. But do those answers really mean that the person is clinically depressed or just a bit fed-up with being pissed upon.
I've some depressing moments in my working life but they've not made me clinically depressed, similarly working as a band manager for a band trying to break into the music business has made me very cynical and jaded about the whole industry which, again, was depressing but it never made be clinically depressed... However, the death of my father in the same week as the birth of my daughter on the other-hand sent me to a very dark place that took me several years to recover from. With the benefit of hindsight I'd say that was depression but at the time I never saw it that way. But I digress...
From the fringes of the music world I can attest that it takes a strong almost stoic attitude to ride over the rough terrain that is the music business. Certainly the trials and tribulations that can befall an aspiring musician are many-fold: label rejections, royalty non-payments, being strung-along on promises, being conned and lied too, bad gigs, poor attendance, indifferent audiences, miserable record and merch sales, promoters legging it with the door-money, hours of rehearsals, the cost of equipment, having no insurance when it gets nicked or broken - none of this is commensurate with the amount of work you have to put in just to stand still. Is that depressing? Only if your "artist" sets their expectations higher than can be practically achieved. Not every artist can make money by simple virtue of it being a saturated market and it's always been like that - 2% of artists earn 98% of all the money - this has been true ever since a bloke in a cave started charging his fellow troglodytes a slice of mammoth flesh to hear him bash-out a tune on a hollowed log, and Bandicamp is no different - nothing has changed from the days of Tinpan Alley and the mega-corporate record labels, it's just now the aspiring artist has to pay their own costs out of their own pockets instead of the record company advancing them a loan to pay for everything.
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What?
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166178
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Posted: January 10 2017 at 13:56 |
Davesax1965 wrote:
Here's one of many links.... just google "Musicians and depression".
"Another factor cited by survey participants was “a lack of recognition for one’s work and the welding of music and identity into one’s own idea of selfhood.”"
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this seems like human problems in general, not just musicians.
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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2013
Location: UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2839
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Posted: January 11 2017 at 01:40 |
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Ah yes, "human problems in general", but musicians have (supposedly) three times the prevalence towards depression.....
Yep, I think it's really about what a horrendous place the music industry is. If you play for your own amusement, or with friends, you'll probably have a happy little fishbowl existence. Go outside the fishbowl and it rapidly gets very unpleasant.
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Musicians and depression
