Why the hate on Radioakitivitat(Kraftwerk)?

*this post was denied*

Edited by hieronymous - March 28 2016 at 22:58

hieronymous wrote: At one point I decided to just try and ignore this thread. But something's been eating at me. Basically: You do not get to determine the defining factors of what constitutes "music." If you think you can say that a certain band's music actually constitutes "music" vs. something that lacks value, then you are sorely mistaken. I want to just laugh it off, but I actually find it offensive that someone thinks that they are the arbiters of musical value. How dare you? How dare you presume? I am a musician, I have been playing for over thirty years. I play a lowly instrument, the bass guitar, and often with a pick, no less. And yet, I love listening to music. I listen to a lot of music which I myself cannot perform, whether due to lack of experience or lack of technical ability. And yet, I would never presume to call a certain band or kind of music "not music." Music has nothing to do with complexity or virtuosity. Those are musical elements that, combined with other musical elements, such as creativity and/or sincerity, may or may not make for enjoyable music. I would rather listen to music for enjoyment and appreciation, and hopefully also for inspiration. Why bother criticizing others? Wasted energy better used for other, more creative, ends...

Edited by Pastmaster - March 29 2016 at 00:41

I could happily live with just their first 3 albums, and perhaps Man-Maschine for the later period, but my OCD compels me to own all up to and including Electric Cafe.........

Davesax1965 wrote: [QUOTE=hieronymous]At one point I decided to just try and ignore this thread. But something's been eating at me. Basically: You do not get to determine the defining factors of what constitutes "music." If you think you can say that a certain band's music actually constitutes "music" vs. something that lacks value, then you are sorely mistaken. I want to just laugh it off, but I actually find it offensive that someone thinks that they are the arbiters of musical value. How dare you? How dare you presume? I am a musician, I have been playing for over thirty years. I play a lowly instrument, the bass guitar, and often with a pick, no less. And yet, I love listening to music. I listen to a lot of music which I myself cannot perform, whether due to lack of experience or lack of technical ability. And yet, I would never presume to call a certain band or kind of music "not music." Music has nothing to do with complexity or virtuosity. Those are musical elements that, combined with other musical elements, such as creativity and/or sincerity, may or may not make for enjoyable music. I would rather listen to music for enjoyment and appreciation, and hopefully also for inspiration. Why bother criticizing others? Wasted energy better used for other, more creative, ends... ... When I initially tried to post, I was denied - too many posts within a certain time-span, appeared spam-like - should I heed it as a warning or message from the prog gods? How can I accuse someone else of being too critical, when I am being probably over-critical myself? Maybe an algorithm perceived the critical nature of my post? However, I have decided to go ahead and post - the initial energy was too much to hold inside - and besides, I have now exceeded my 100th post! Maybe my opinion will count for something now?!!

Scorrick, blimey, there's a word which I've not heard for a bit. ;-)

I was drunk when I posted so thank you for putting up with my rant - I had to get it out of me!

Davesax1965 wrote: Davesax1965 wrote: [QUOTE=hieronymous]At one point I decided to just try and ignore this thread. But something's been eating at me. Basically: You do not get to determine the defining factors of what constitutes "music." If you think you can say that a certain band's music actually constitutes "music" vs. something that lacks value, then you are sorely mistaken. I want to just laugh it off, but I actually find it offensive that someone thinks that they are the arbiters of musical value. How dare you? How dare you presume? I am a musician, I have been playing for over thirty years. I play a lowly instrument, the bass guitar, and often with a pick, no less. And yet, I love listening to music. I listen to a lot of music which I myself cannot perform, whether due to lack of experience or lack of technical ability. And yet, I would never presume to call a certain band or kind of music "not music." Music has nothing to do with complexity or virtuosity. Those are musical elements that, combined with other musical elements, such as creativity and/or sincerity, may or may not make for enjoyable music. I would rather listen to music for enjoyment and appreciation, and hopefully also for inspiration. Why bother criticizing others? Wasted energy better used for other, more creative, ends... ... When I initially tried to post, I was denied - too many posts within a certain time-span, appeared spam-like - should I heed it as a warning or message from the prog gods? How can I accuse someone else of being too critical, when I am being probably over-critical myself? Maybe an algorithm perceived the critical nature of my post? However, I have decided to go ahead and post - the initial energy was too much to hold inside - and besides, I have now exceeded my 100th post! Maybe my opinion will count for something now?!!  "How dare you? How dare you presume?" - quite easily, Hieronymous, music is down to personal taste.  Now YOU seem to be assuming that your opinion, personal taste and values are the correct one, aren't you ? ;-) You like 'em, I don't, it's just the internet and no one should get too worked up about it. ;-) "Music has nothing to do with complexity or virtuosity." - That depends. You'll find, as you get more musical experience, that you might start getting more out of music which has some degree of virtuosity, as you tend to start playing along to music - in your head at least - as you get more experience. With that statement, you're trying to define music - same as before, you can't .... it's PERSONAL taste. ;-) Other people on the internet are allowed to have contrary views to yours. And mine. So long as it's a logical argument, who can complain ? ;-)

I still think we are operating on different wavelengths - if it's just a matter of taste, then no problem! I guess my opinion is that we have to be very careful making absolute judgements regarding questions of absolute musical value.

I did mis-speak though - you are right, my statement that "Music has nothing to do with complexity or virtuosity" is fundamentally flawed. What I should have said is that complexity and virtuosity are not requirements for music to be "good." Some types, sure. I love virtuosity - Yes, Rush, King Crimson, Stanley Clarke, Jaco Pastorius, Al Di Meola, Mahavishnu Orchestra - I love them all! But I also love Muddy Waters, Bo Diddley, Grant Green, Gábor Szabó - musicians who may not be technically brilliant and innovative but whose music is Good Music.

I feel better anyway, listening to some Bo Diddley playing with the Grateful Dead in 1973, all is good...

Listened to the last couple of tracks on 1981's Computer World on headphones tonight, including the 1997 Japan release bonus track "Dentaku" (the Japanese language version of "Pocket Calculator" - I also have an original 12" single) - I think what people don't get about later Kraftwerk is the machine aspect. It is motoriktaken to an extreme. Can human beings be this repetitive? Is it being performed by humans along with a click and/or pre-programmed or sequenced stuff or is it all programmed? It's 1981! They didn't have MIDI. Did they have digital sequencers then? Was it the Computer World that the album is talking about or did that happen later? If you can get into it, it is mind-blowing. They did not create the future (our past and present). They were ahead of their time and pointed towards a future that came true in many ways - and they manifested it musically. I saw them on one of the 3D tours - it was amazing! The gear had changed! Now you know that much of it has been sampled and sequenced, but what the heck are those 4 guys doing up there for over an hour?!!