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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Topic: Suggested rules for certain types of threads
    Posted: January 08 2014 at 04:35
Has anyone ever considered a rule that posts in "what are you listening to right now"/top 10 list/recommendation threads etc. must have some in-depth description at least, preferably some kind of analysis, and not just mentions?

I generally don't find posts of that variety without some kind of detailed explanation useful for the stated purpose of the threads, because I don't know why specific artists and records are being brought up. The Metal-Archives forum, where I posted from 2006-2008, has a strict set of rules for how to make and reply to recommendation threads which I consider a very good idea because it resulted in the rec threads for the most part being more useful than the ones here on PA. (one of the very few advantages MA has over this forum)
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2014 at 05:14
...and the Bandcamp thread. 





Or even just the Bandcamp thread.
What?
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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 08 2014 at 06:07
I also wouldn't mind ProgArchives having as strict review guidelines as Metal-Archives, where the reviews are on average much longer and more in-depth than here. Say what you want about M-A's uptightness when it comes to things like forum moderation and inclusion of artists with an ambiguous genre (or lack thereof), but there are some departments where it isn't a bad thing.
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Points: 13382 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2014 at 10:45
^ Some people prefer not to do it or don't see the point in over-elaboration. Not saying that going into a lot of detail is a bad thing, but you know what I mean. 

Edited by irrelevant - January 09 2014 at 10:52
New album!
http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=7385
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2014 at 11:20
This isn't Encyclopaedia Mettalum,and I don't see anything wrong with the threads you have such a hard on for,they're harmless.

If I post that I am listening to a certain album I shouldn't have to write a mini review for it.If what I listened to interests somebody they can look it up.


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Points: 16952 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2014 at 11:24
Plus some people don't have the knack for writing or describing music. Some people will put a blurb next to recommendations for a description or note but I think forcing reviews upon recommendation threads where they have been harmless and successful in the past.
I don't think this means flooding with videos or making 10000 threads though.
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2014 at 07:14
Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Plus some people don't have the knack for writing or describing music.


How likely are they to register on a forum like this, though?

Quote Some people will put a blurb next to recommendations for a description or note but I think forcing reviews upon recommendation threads where they have been harmless and successful in the past.


I'm not requesting mini-reviews, just that namedrops are accompanied by a bit of musical description. If not, I usually have a hard time finding out exactly how a mentioned artist or record I'm not familiar with is relevant to the discussion if I don't already know the poster's taste in music before. (which is far from a given!)
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Points: 4287 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2014 at 07:45
It would be nice if it said : Artist - Album.
(im able to wiki from there)
But just a cover with no name or anything Wacko
Prog is whatevey you want it to be. So dont diss other peoples prog, and they wont diss yours
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2014 at 08:43
I've never been a fan of rules to be perfectly honest with you. I believe in (almost) self regulated fora that rely on the individual posters to act in a manner that purports respect and genuine interest in being here. Sometimes people are lazy (myself included) and post the occasional cover art in the listening thread, other times you get long fruitful conversations in there (I just had one the other day with my down under friend Gabe (irrelevant)). It goes back and forth, and speaking wholly for myself: I find it rather heart-warming to see Febus mentioned every time people post in there. He died a little while back, but most people who ever had the chance to talk to him on here, still remembers him very lovingly. He loved the listening thread, which is why I've always thought of it as a small ode to him on PAs behalf. 

As for suggestions without any follow up writing, where people just spit out arbitrary acts, well we can all agree just how quickly that gets annoying. It works if it's between people who know each other really well. If John (Mellotron Storm), for instance, recommends me Paula Abdul, I'd check her out based solely on that. 

I do however think that folks with a talent for the English lingo - hell, just people who can sling a few sentences together - have an obligation to share their thoughts on whatever music the're into/engage in discussions where they have something to say (and if they feel like it)/anything really so as we can get some sparks going, and as long as folks come here for the music and act accordingly, it's all good to me.

(I also believe PA is a place people can come to chat about all sorts of things, providing it's done in the right sections. Here I was referring to the musical side of PA.)


Edited by Guldbamsen - January 10 2014 at 09:50
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2014 at 10:35
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

I also wouldn't mind ProgArchives having as strict review guidelines as Metal-Archives, where the reviews are on average much longer and more in-depth than here. Say what you want about M-A's uptightness when it comes to things like forum moderation and inclusion of artists with an ambiguous genre (or lack thereof), but there are some departments where it isn't a bad thing.


Your quest for review improvement is laudable. However, even a casual glance over the recent history of this site will tell you that such intent will be fought tooth and nail by the 'ladder climbers' in our midst who value quantity over quality as some sort of perceived cognizance of 'reward' for their efforts from PA. (Why do we continue to risk endorsing the authors of 500 crap reviews as being more representative of the avowed aim of the site than the authors of 20 good reviews? - go figure but I guess that's my inference of how the league table is perceived by visitors)
In an attempt to raise the standard of written reviews, Max once removed the 'most prolific reviewers' league table from the front page and this was met by such hostility from some of the membership that they created a dedicated Facebook page to present their list of demands and grievances to the PA Admins for such treachery.
Cut to the chase, this is an amateur site where the only censorship of reviews is that of legibility, profanity or slander etc so expecting the quality to improve by implementing additional guidelines is probably bound to be met with the sort of shrill indifference I alluded to above.

The 'subjectivity' argument that is always trotted out re the who are you to say what is good c/f crap? etc is rendered spurious when said reviews routinely only just fulfill the minimum requirement of 100 words etc.

I'd be in favour of raising the minimum criteria to 200 words for a written review but would concede that this could be deemed a disincentive to review and yes, I just happen to be a long winded gas bag.
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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2014 at 14:34
I'm not quite so certain that'd be the result.

M-A has a rule where the members get "points" for their contributions that can be seen on their profiles, depending on how much they've modified. The crucial factor is that the amount of points given for an approved review varies on a scale from 1 to 8 depending on how much the approving moderator likes the review in question. From my memories of M-A, that actually results in a lot of cooperation between reviewers to improve by sharing advice on the forum as well as a bit of friendly competition in quality as well as quantity.

The review quality I think can be measured somewhat objectively, in things like analysis of lyrics and how they fit into the overarching concept of the music, how much music theory is used in the description of the composition and performance or a record's place in the genre's history.
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Points: 11415 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2014 at 15:19
I think the Spirit of Rock site (and others) adopt a similar points system. The problem here on PA is that every single review submitted would have to be rated by the admins and I'm almost certain they would refuse to take on such a task.I ain't an admin but if they feel differently I'm sure they will chime in accordingly....?


Edited by ExittheLemming - January 10 2014 at 23:23
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Toaster Mantis View Drop Down
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Points: 5898 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2014 at 15:23
Fair enough.
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2014 at 07:27
You didn't have to change your post Iain, you were spot onWink
I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable having to rate reviews, hell I don't even like rating albums I review myself.
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Points: 13298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2014 at 12:21
When we get the new version of the forum (hopefully in the next few months), each post will have the option to "thank" the member, so this could be seen as "points."
While I think it would be good to recommend members to post little blurbs about albums in the listening thread, I don't think it should be mandated. Members who post blurbs can be "thanked" by members who appreciate the blurbs, and for those who find value in the thanks, this could promote them to write more blurbs.

In terms of reviews on the actual site, it's futile to have to rate every single one. We have pretty heavy review traffic, and people have their favorite reviewers who they pay attention to. I like to read the reviews on the front page, and even if their terse, I can usually get something out of them. I feel like having to rate reviews would turn out to be a double edged sword; it would prompt members to write better reviews, but it would also push some members away from reviewing who might have just started and aren't fully into their 'style.' (If you're feeling adventurous, read one of my first few reviews and then read one of my recent ones - you'll see what a few years of style maturation can do).
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2014 at 12:50
I suggest the improvement of reviews be in the hands of the members. The advantage of a forum is that it gives us a good platform to discuss these kinds of things and improve that way rather than enforcing rules. How about starting with a "Review Discussion, Advice, Tips" thread for members to discuss reviewing and whatnot?

Edited by Polymorphia - January 11 2014 at 12:50
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Points: 13298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2014 at 14:27
^This exists. Smile
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Points: 8856 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2014 at 14:55
Originally posted by Andy Webb Andy Webb wrote:

^This exists. Smile
Yikes. I would never imagine it would be so scary. LOL
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Points: 13298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2014 at 15:26
It can get heated. 
Usually it has some nice topics of discussion though. LOL
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Points: 12859 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 11 2014 at 15:53
Originally posted by Toaster Mantis Toaster Mantis wrote:

Originally posted by Horizons Horizons wrote:

Plus some people don't have the knack for writing or describing music.
How likely are they to register on a forum like this, though
Believe it or not, we do exist. Being a fan of progressive rock doesn't come with a degree in musical theory, sadly.

Edited by The Bearded Bard - January 11 2014 at 16:08
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