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fluiddruid ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: May 19 2009 Location: Hungary Status: Offline Points: 81 |
![]() Posted: November 13 2011 at 03:51 |
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Townscream was a hungarian prog.rock band. They released only one album, named "Nagyvarosi ikonok" in 1997. The bandleader, keyboardist Csaba Vedres was founder memberof After Crying.
Their style is very close to ELP, and After Crying. |
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NotAProghead ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7935 |
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TOWNSCREAM sole album sounds exactly like After Crying work to me.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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harmonium.ro ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
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Good stuff. Any more samples available?
I'll notify the Symphonic Prog Team. |
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NotAProghead ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7935 |
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Some more samples for streaming:
1. Nagyvárosi Ikonok I. 11. Hajnali ének 12. Alászálla a poklokra 13. Az utolsó ikon |
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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yam yam ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7049 |
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There are a few more on YouTube too:
Track 1 (Nagyvárosi Ikonok 1) Track 2 (Nagyvárosi Ikonok II) Track 4 (Nagyvárosi Ikonok IV) Track 5 (Minden nap) Track 9 (Íme, hát megleltem hazámat) The YouTube sample in the original post was track 7 (Fekete hangulat). The 'Nagyvárosi Ikonok' album has 13 tracks in all.
Edited by yam yam - November 13 2011 at 19:07 |
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AtomicCrimsonRush ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14258 |
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Checking this band for votes in Symphonic...
Perhaps not Symphonic but PR Edited by AtomicCrimsonRush - November 14 2011 at 03:58 |
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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As Scott said, the three votes were no for Symphonic.
The main problem is that they have some Prog moments (ELP inspired), then some non Prog Jazz - Rock, Folk, mainstream, etc. My personal opinion is Prog Related, maybe Crossover. Sorry Fluiddruid, I'm a fan of Eastern Europe Prog, specially Hungarian and Romanian, but this band doesn't fit in Symphonic. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 14 2011 at 09:44 |
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NotAProghead ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7935 |
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If this band is not symphonic I don't know what symphonic prog is.
Don't send me the link to the genre's definition.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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harmonium.ro ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 18 2008 Location: Anna Calvi Status: Offline Points: 22989 |
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Thanks a lot David, I'll check the other samples too and see what can be done.
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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We have listened all the tracks carefully, and the three of us reached the decision that it's not Symphonic because there's a lot happening in there. We know what we do, but to be sure, we check the information available so after deciding our votes, we verified other sites and found that the definitions of: - Proggnosis - GEPR - Ground & Sky Are similar to ours,except Ground & Sky, while Progressiveears doesn't define the band (Something haty happens when a band escapes to their parameters). Iván EDIT: BTW: The Vedres page says about TOWNSCREAM:
This clearly points towards Prog Related with a classical flavor, he doesn't say we played Prog, he says that at the point in which they recorded Nagyvárosi ikonok they were PERHAPS CLOSE TO PROG, as we also say.. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 14 2011 at 18:57 |
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NotAProghead ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7935 |
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OK, let's check other sources once again:
Proggnosis (http://www.proggnosis.com/PGRelease.asp?RID=741): "eclectic transformation of pure classical inspired pieces into something really progressive", "The use of Piano, Trombone, Flute and other orchestral instruments is done in such way that both Classic music fans and Proggers will adore this album" "the entrance is assembled by the piano in a pure classic approach and then the music is transported into something more jazzy/fusion when the drums join in" "pure minstrel medieval and folk sounds" "This is a great progressive album" GEPR (http://www.gepr.net/tofram.html): "mixes classical, chamber, symphonic, folk, even a dash of musique concrete with rock music" Ground & Sky (http://www.progreviews.com/reviews/display.php?rev=town-ni): "The two longest tracks (just over seven minutes each) ... with the most energy and the biggest symphonic sound (due largely to some killer cello playing)." "I could see fans of symphonic prog, particularly King Crimson's first two albums" "It is the most symphonic work I have heard from the After Crying personnel" "long symphonic workouts with use of strings and horns" Other sources describe Townscream album as truly progressive and the word "symphonic" is used quite often. Or only "pure symphonic" sound without any other ingredients counts? By the way, Pink Floyd don't say they play prog either.
![]() Edited by NotAProghead - November 14 2011 at 19:13 |
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Have you read the quotes? The only one that points towards symphonic is Ground & Sky, and we admited that in my first post. GEPR says: Classical + chamber + Symphonic + Folk + Concrete Music Proggnosis says: Jazz Fusion, Folk, Medieval, etc, doesn't even mention the word Symphonic But most important, the author says "We were close to prog" Now, if anothe team accepts them, it's OK with us, we only decide about Symphonic, where we believe the band goes is only a suggestion (opinion if you want), But all the sites except Ground & Sky PARTIALLY And I say PARTIALLY because Brandon Wu from Ground & Sky doesn't mention Symphonic at all (Let's remember that Ground & Sky places three opinions about the band:
At the end it's our call, and the decision is unanimous. Thanks for the interest. Iván EDIT: Pink Floyd never said they played Prog, but Vedres Csaba says "We aspired to lay Prog but we were only close". That's a huge difference. Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 14 2011 at 19:27 |
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NotAProghead ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7935 |
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I know, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it".
![]() I hope another prog team will accept TOWNSCREAM, but I don't think your search for "pure symphonic sound" serves for good.
Edited by NotAProghead - November 14 2011 at 19:42 |
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Whatever team accepts Townscream, is ok with us. Please, if we searched for pure Symphonic bands:
Would be on another genre, because none of them is purely Symphonic, but at least all them have an impoirtant Symphonic component, unlike Townscream. Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 14 2011 at 19:59 |
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yam yam ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7049 |
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I think that the overwhelming concensus from all the comments and reviews we've been given access to in this thread is that this album by Townscream is a fine collection of progressive/classically inspired music indeed. I've just listened to it from start to finish, and was absolutely enthralled by the quality, complexity and variety of compositions on offer, lasting, without any 'filler tracks' being encountered at all, for well over an hour. The problem of course with a work as varied as this is that it inevitably doesn't fit neatly into any of our sub genres - but it surely belongs on the site without any doubt whatsoever. So what can we do? There are only three alternatives available to us as I see it (to throw it in prog related would be an insult to the musicians who created it as far as I'm concerned). The first is to hope that the team whose sub genre has the greatest amount of recognisable content within the music being evaluated agrees to take them, despite their misgivings concerning the album as a whole - & that, I suppose, would have to be symphonic. However, that team have already said 'no' for reasons which they are perfectly correct and within their rights to state, because this is not an entirely symphonic album by any stretch of the imagination. The second is that eclectic agree to take them because of the wide variety of musical styles that are expressed within the album, even though it isn't really 'eclectic prog' in the true sense of the definition. The third is that crossover take them for pretty well the same reason, though here again it isn't really typical 'crossover prog' either. What we have to hope above all else is that we don't end up with no team wanting to be the ones who agree to take them, and another game of ping-pong developing that has no eventual winner, and ends up with the ball being belted out through an open window, only to go bouncing off down the street, never to be seen again. If that happens then the site will be missing a very significant & worthy Eastern European prog artist, as I'm sure most people here agree, & PA will have failed big-time.
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Ivan_Melgar_M ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 27 2004 Location: Peru Status: Offline Points: 19557 |
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Hi Yam Yam, it's the first time I talk to you, so glad to meet you. My impression and the impression of the team, is that Symphonic is not the most preeminent element in this band, I personally believe there's a lot of mainstream, plus Folk, plus Jazz, plus a lot more sounds, moods and styles. Our duty is to accept them or not in Symphonic, and by unanimous vote we don't think they are Symphonic because Classical influence + Rock is not always Symphonic Prog. The options for me are
In that order, but in no way we can tell a team to accept or reject them, it's their call, and I would be glad to see them in Prog Archives. I thank you for your comprehension, and only disagree with you in one point, Symphonic is not the main element. People tend to mistake Classical or Neo Classical with Symphonic, they listen a cello or a violin and almost immediately think in Symphonic...IMHO Townscream, is a good Rock band with some Classical influences, a lot of Jazz, some Folk and even traces of Minimalism, Except for the first track, I don't listen Symphonic, each track is different to the previous. We are having a similar problem now, Marty McFly sent us a FANTASTIC 100% PROG CZECH BAND CALLED JAN SPALENÝ, IMHO is one of the best bands I ever heard, but sadly is a blend of Psych + Jazz + Heavy Prog + some sort of bard in the vein of Vladimir Vysotsky. We would had loved to accept the band, but itżs not Symphonic, only fantastic Prog. Probably we will send them to Eclectic for analysis and hope they are accepted, and if not, they will have to go to Xover and if not, to Prog Related....And if they end in PR I won't see that as an insult, because Prog is not an award, just a genre, we haven't created Prog Related to insult artists, just to add artists not fully Prog. Glad to talk with you, and hope you understand our team's position and agree to disagree with us. Thanks Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - November 14 2011 at 22:31 |
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Svetonio ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 20 2010 Location: Serbia Status: Offline Points: 10213 |
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AtomicCrimsonRush ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 02 2008 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 14258 |
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The band are clearly prog or at least related to prog but they belong in a sub genre that suits them. Symphonic is not suited when you listen to the album as a whole, only parts sound like ELP due to the classical influences. I hope they get accepted by another sub genre team soon Best
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yam yam ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7049 |
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Thank you for your reply Iván. I have every respect for you and your team's knowledge regarding what constitutes true symphonic prog, and fully accept what you say concerning this band 'Townscream'. I too did not consider it a genuine symphonic prog album, but thought from my own rather limited understanding of the sub genre that maybe it had more of this represented within the music than any of the other specialised sub genres that are available for us on progarchives. Herein lies the problem of course - our sub genres are all quite specialised, with the exception of prog related and to a lesser extent, crossover. Therefore when an artist such as Townscream with such a diverse range of musical styles pops up, we inevitably have a problem finding a suitable home for them. Other prog sites do not have this problem - they do not divide their database into specialised sub genres in the way that we do - they just add an artist if they are considered prog and that's it...job done! We try to go a step further and classify an artist more narrowly within the overall progressive rock genre which is one of the reasons why our site is probably the best and most informative of all of them. However, sometimes this can work against us, and an artist such as Townscream who cannot be neatly fitted into one of our sub genres can end up being lost to the site altogether, leaving a gap in our database which the other sites do not have. The point I was trying to make was that in a case like this we should maybe encourage the team whose sub genre is considered the most appropriate to relax their guidelines a little and try to accommodate the band rather than enforcing them rigidly and the band thus being rejected from the site altogether. Hopefully, either eclectic or crossover team will adopt this approach and the band will be added to one of those sub genres in the near future, but I often think that the approach of the prog metal team is perhaps the best in a situation like this. Karl (bonnek) once said in a reply to one of my posts, when I said I couldn't hear much metal in a band they'd just added: "if it's prog and there's a scrap of metal in it, then we'll annexe it". Sometimes, and certainly in cases like this, I think this approach is highly laudable - some my say that it devalues the integrity of the database to do this, but since none of the other sites seem to bother with prog sub genres anyway, I really don't think it matters. Thanks again for your reply. I do understand your team's stance regarding the type of artists you are willing to accept, but I hope you can also see the problem we can sometimes end up with if every team on the site were to adopt the same approach. Prog artists that simply 'do not fit' anywhere are going to end up being missed out altogether, and that cannot be good for the site.
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NotAProghead ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Errors & Omissions Team Joined: October 22 2005 Location: Russia Status: Offline Points: 7935 |
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^ Good point.
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Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)
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