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progman1976 View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Prog Archives weighted rating system
    Posted: August 18 2010 at 04:55
On the one hand this system is excellent as it minimizes the impact of people throwing crazy ratings around without and writing to justify their decision and rewards people that spend time writing about their opinions on the album. 

I always see these lengthy well written reviews that put the album in context and give history and talk in length about each song whereas I never seem to be able to find enough to say about an album other than which songs I like and don't like which is pretty boring. Obviously some people are more literate and expressive than others.  Even if I really love an album and want to review it I really don't know what to say and find it hard to write much more than "This is excellent! Listen to it for yourself and find out..."

Often this means that I will only give an album a rating and not a pointless 100 word review, as a result my opinion is either 5 or 10 times less important than others according to the websites system. 

This is merely an observation.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 07:08
If you don't find the words to describe each song, try to describe your sensations and feelings. It works as well as any technical or specialistic description, probably better. 
I think a review is written for people who hasn't listened to the album yet. For discussions and simple appreciations we have the forums.

Instead of changing the rating system, try to write a review basing on your general feelings. Choose an album that you really love or hate. This site is not a literary prize and looking at how you wrote in this post, you don't write badly. What you are saying is clearly said and easily understandable. Not too long to be boring. 

I didn't count but I think it's above 100 words. 
I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 08:44
Yeah, we don't need everybody to write a detailed review of how the album was built and presented historically! If two or three people put it in its context, that's enough. Part of the beauty of this body of reviewers is that all sorts of different angles are used while writing. I read through ten reviews, chances are I will get one detailed historical review, a few based on what people find themselves liking or disliking on the album, a few comparing the music to other musics, and so forth. Just because you don't feel like you fall into this "more literate" category doesn't mean that what you write won't be as or more powerful for a number of readers!

Besides... reading that above paragraph, you have no room to claim a lack of literary or expressive talents. Just give some reviewing a shot! At first, you'll write fairly lame ones. Everybody does. But then you'll find your rhythm and your style, and you'll be contributing so much more to the site than simply more weighted opinions.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 08:52

Yeah, some people told me that they like my short reviews exactly because they're short. I'm not so good on writing longer reviews, so this is why I'm writing 150-300 word long ones.

By the way, weight of left column is 10, right column 5 and rating only 1. So your review is only 2 times less weighting than of Collaborator, not 5 times. That's good, isn't it ?

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 09:01
^ Good observation Marty. And I concur about your reviews Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 10:13
Originally posted by Marty McFly Marty McFly wrote:

Yeah, some people told me that they like my short reviews exactly because they're short. I'm not so good on writing longer reviews, so this is why I'm writing 150-300 word long ones.

By the way, weight of left column is 10, right column 5 and rating only 1. So your review is only 2 times less weighting than of Collaborator, not 5 times. That's good, isn't it ?



Interesting!

Yeah, I think long reviews in genereal usually go on a bit... I reckon 100-300 is good for a short review and 300-500 medium and 500-700 long.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 11:51
Arrrggghhh. I have written a very long, difficult review only to have it disappear when I tried to post. Then I started messing around with the rating system by giving a list of albums one star to see if the ratings changed (trying to understand if I was just prohibited from reviewing). This prompted a deservedly concerned private message, and now I can't find any method to undo the arbitrary ratings! 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 12:05
Just a kindly reminder: we have a decent forum search function and this issue has been raised before. LOL

My thoughts are: if you're doing a rating only for an album that already has a lot of ratings and reviews, your rating only will be statistically irrelevant to the overall rating whether weighted or not.  If the album hasn't been reviewed much, why not give us your thoughts on it?  Elaborate track by track reviews don't carry any more weight than the short and sweet. 

Ratings are the last thing that I look at when deciding if I want to get something although I do take them into consideration.   A good review simply carries a lot more weight with me than a good rating.

If you have an obsession with ratings, Mike at progfreak.com would love to have you join. Big smile




Edited by Slartibartfast - August 18 2010 at 12:08
Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 12:10
MMA has half star system. It's really nice but personally we need to start going to quarter stars if you ask me.
It's just too difficult to choose between 3.5 and 4 sometimes!
And I've been thinking of writing shorter reviews actually. More an emotional and not analytical thing.

Then again, I am a progger and love the self indulgence and over the top, and since I still don't see any real impact, (unless the album has like 3 reviews) I'm gunna keep it verbose!



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 12:25
Originally posted by Ronnie Pilgrim Ronnie Pilgrim wrote:

Arrrggghhh. I have written a very long, difficult review only to have it disappear when I tried to post. Then I started messing around with the rating system by giving a list of albums one star to see if the ratings changed (trying to understand if I was just prohibited from reviewing). This prompted a deservedly concerned private message, and now I can't find any method to undo the arbitrary ratings! 

Stumped in San Antonio
Drop me a PM with any of your ratings you'd like deleted RP, and I'll be happy to help.Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 20:32
Originally posted by Gandalfs Mother Gandalfs Mother wrote:

...  Often this means that I will only give an album a rating and not a pointless 100 word review, as a result my opinion is either 5 or 10 times less important than others according to the websites system.  ...

This is merely an observation.
 
I don't think that any person's opinions are not important. I may not necessarily agree with your views but you have a right to express them! Not sure I would buy the CD ... see the point?
 
There is a nice side here, and it is that ... it is a horrendous list of material that I can not possibly afford, and damn it ... I wanna hear it all! Cry
 
For me, and some folks don't seem to like the way I write things, the only issues I have with reviews, same thing for film reviews, is that there are times when some of them are down right advertising and the only thing they are missing is a girl in an attractive pose to make us think it is good stuff! It's sort of like reading a review in the USA Today when they touch some music ... it's a one sentence kiss or a one sentence throwaway line! And I find it really difficult to figure out how/what to make of that.
 
There is another example for me. I got a couple of months ago, a smapler from Wayside. When I got done listening to it, I was so disappointed and frustrated that I threw the disk to the doggie next door. There were like 8 or 9 bands listed and I listened to them all ... and when I got done, I sat there with a knot in my stomach and started needling it again ... it was all just about pure copy of each other, and what I would call NY Bar atmosphere jazz, or Frank Zappa wannabes! It was so formulaic that I almost threw up! And it was as exciting as sitting on a stool! ... I now understand the meaning of it Frank ... totally! And Wayside was one of the originals that had been massive with Imports a long time ago ... what happened?
 
I much prefer, believe it or not, that you tell me that you love it, and if you can tell me why you like it, I will probably listen to it and find out what the hooplah is all about. I'm not a part of the top ten mentality that has to be told what to do, what to wear, what to listen to, what is progressive, what is good, what is bad ... and so on ... I like my "independence" even if some folks don't.
 
But then ... we would not have had our beloved "progressive music" if it had not been for that independent spirit! ... and that is what a lot of people here do not see as far as I am concerned ... better yet, watch for someone to state below this reply ... what are you talking about? ... meaning they never even read it!


Edited by moshkito - August 18 2010 at 20:36
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2010 at 21:05
Originally posted by Nathaniel607 Nathaniel607 wrote:


Interesting!

Yeah, I think long reviews in genereal usually go on a bit... I reckon 100-300 is good for a short review and 300-500 medium and 500-700 long.
 
I'm not sure that I want Cliff Notes reviews ... the amount of content (for me) is not an issue when it is honest, and to the point. When it starts droning on about it not being progressive or prog is when I turn left and go home!
 
But most people in this board wouldn't sit for War and Peace either ... hmmm ... I think I need to take some Cliff Notes' lessons!
 
In my film reviews, the length varies, and you can see many of them on my website or at the Internet Movie Database. The issue is ... there are some things that hit you harder and better than others. I had a really short review of a film that had already gotten raves everywhere. I was not impressed and there was nothing in the film that struck me that much and said so. I got quoted!!!! The other time I had a lengthy and really nice review about a film that ... I must have been the only kid in the audience that appreciated it and loved it ... and it was quoted from in two other Film Festivals, and one of them decided to show the film because of what I wrote!
 
In other words, in the end, the film has to stand up for it itself ... and the one thing I don't care for is someone "setting up the film" for me like Hollywood does in both TV and Film ... hint hint ... advertising ... hint hint ... advertising ... hint hint ... and some reviews have this knack for comparing it to "progressive" concepts or ideas, and to me, that doesn't tell me anything about the artist ... works better if you tell me why you don't like it!
 
There was a French film that had me on the edge of the seat ... and it was over 4 hours long. Rivette's "La Belle Noiseusse" is really not a film about anything ... I think it made a pretext to make a film! But for 4 hours you get to see this artist's hand work from a charcoal sketch all the way to a finished 4, 5, 6 ft high piece ... and you see every single scratch and touch and position and color and decisions and lack of decisions ... and to me that was the ultimate ... I love to do that ... that's where the creativity is, and where the "excitement" of the "art" (including music) lies ... the rest is not necessary. Two other reviewers next to me thought it was boring and one left 30 minutes before the film was over. And they didn['t like it and even said it was boring!
 
Well, if you can not appreciate the "birth and life of an art" ... you're not going to be an artist anyway ... and there was very little at that moment that didn't shinie in the beauty of what "art" really is ... I see a review the same way I see any art ... I want to live and die with it. Nothing else! And this is why a lot of music that "considers itself" prog or otherwise, doesn't jive with me ... it is about a copy, or an idea, and some nice words ... but in the end it is quite vaccuous and you don't see the real meat at work! The inner life of the plants is gone, if you will!
 
I do think ... that this is a labor of love for a lot of people, myself included! Even if some would rather troll and think not!


Edited by moshkito - August 18 2010 at 21:12
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2010 at 05:17
Originally posted by Nathaniel607 Nathaniel607 wrote:

Originally posted by Marty McFly Marty McFly wrote:

Yeah, some people told me that they like my short reviews exactly because they're short. I'm not so good on writing longer reviews, so this is why I'm writing 150-300 word long ones.

By the way, weight of left column is 10, right column 5 and rating only 1. So your review is only 2 times less weighting than of Collaborator, not 5 times. That's good, isn't it ?



Interesting!

Yeah, I think long reviews in genereal usually go on a bit... I reckon 100-300 is good for a short review and 300-500 medium and 500-700 long.

Thanks. Long reviews are important. For example I love Klaatu's Hope album. Well, especially title song. So I want to read everything I can about this particular song and I can do that only from these detailed reviews. To see how it affects other, or is it just me in love with this song.

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2010 at 15:06

I am working on a 7500 words insane drivel on the insane drivel* Tales Of Topographic Ocean album by Yes. Should be an informative review. 

(*= according to several Yes members)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2010 at 15:55
Originally posted by Gandalfs Mother Gandalfs Mother wrote:

On the one hand this system is excellent as it minimizes the impact of people throwing crazy ratings around without and writing to justify their decision and rewards people that spend time writing about their opinions on the album. 

I always see these lengthy well written reviews that put the album in context and give history and talk in length about each song whereas I never seem to be able to find enough to say about an album other than which songs I like and don't like which is pretty boring. Obviously some people are more literate and expressive than others.  Even if I really love an album and want to review it I really don't know what to say and find it hard to write much more than "This is excellent! Listen to it for yourself and find out..."

Often this means that I will only give an album a rating and not a pointless 100 word review, as a result my opinion is either 5 or 10 times less important than others according to the websites system. 

This is merely an observation.
100 words isn't that many, your post is 183 words and three short paragraphs, that's 45% longer than the minimum length required for a review.
 
All ratings without review have a weighting of 1, even if by a Prog Reviewer, a Collaborator or an Admin.
What?
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