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SentimentalMercenary 
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Joined: August 12 2009
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 Topic: 5 stars for prog-related?
Posted: August 25 2009 at 09:39 |
Provided the ratings system could be adjusted accordingly, should the ratings system be adjusted to allow for a maximum of 4 stars in the prog-related genre?
My guess is that prog purists would say yes and most others would say no, but I may be totally wrong. Add your thoughts if you have any!
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Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell.
- Karl Popper
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Epignosis
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 09:47 |
Five stars for Prog Related means something different. 
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The T
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 18:40 |
No, prog related albums can be better than prog albums or worse then them. The rating system guides prospective buyers and people whi want to know more about an artist. When a prog-related artist has 5 stars, we're telling that person that the album is a masterpiece worthy of checking out, as deserving of that as a full-prog album.
Maybe the explanation about what constitutes a 5-star album should be changed, though. Delete the "prog" of the definition. Then it fits even prog-related albums. That wouldn't harm the prog orientation of this website, it would just make the ratings clearer.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 18:42 |
 The T wrote:
No, prog related albums can be better than prog albums or worse then them. The rating system guides prospective buyers and people whi want to know more about an artist. When a prog-related artist has 5 stars, we're telling that person that the album is a masterpiece worthy of checking out, as deserving of that as a full-prog album.
Maybe the explanation about what constitutes a 5-star album should be changed, though. Delete the "prog" of the definition. Then it fits even prog-related albums. That wouldn't harm the prog orientation of this website, it would just make the ratings clearer. |
Check again, T, it changed to 'rock' without 'prog'. I just figured it out when trying to discuss something similar about this with Tony, John (EM) I think came and told me the new definition. So you're not alone on knowing it recently
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Logan
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 18:49 |
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Absolutely not. Even if I were to decide on a lower rating for any album because it is not prog (a term open to interpretation), there are albums in Prog Related by bands/artists that I definitely consider to be Prog (or more loosely, progressive rock).
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Dean
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 18:49 |
^ it was me Pablo - and I asked M@X to change it.
I'm in favour of having the word "Prog" removed from all star-rating definitions for all genres - if the band is Prog enough to be added to a genre, then that should be enough and all albums should be judged as pieces of music, not as to whether they are pieces of Progressive Music or not.
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What?
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 18:56 |
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Why shouldn't you be able to give a prog related album a 5? Just because it's not full-fledged prog doesn't mean it can't be a masterpiece.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 18:56 |
Dean wrote:
^ it was me Pablo - and I asked M@X to change it.
I'm in favour of having the word "Prog" removed from all star-rating definitions for all genres - if the band is Prog enough to be added to a genre, then that should be enough and all albums should be judged as pieces of music, not as to whether they are pieces of Progressive Music or not. |
In the second I saw you were the last poster from this thread, I remembered you were the one  And I agree on the removal of Prog in all definitions, or maybe we could choose aside from the star, between Prog and Rock(Pop, blues, etc), though maybe that's more complicated and inefficent.
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Logan
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 19:01 |
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Dean
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 19:08 |
Logan wrote:
Dean wrote:
...I'm in favour of having the word "Prog" removed from all star-rating definitions for all genres - if the band is Prog enough to be added to a genre, then that should be enough and all albums should be judged as pieces of music, not as to whether they are pieces of Progressive Music or not. |
I'm in favour of having the term "Prog" removed from the site altogether. 
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I'll remove it one letter at a time ... of course that would make you "e" and your nick would be "Lan"
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What?
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 19:11 |
J-Man wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to give a prog related album a 5? Just because it's not full-fledged prog doesn't mean it can't be a masterpiece. |
For clarification for those too busy to look:
 Essential: a masterpiece of rock music Excellent addition to any rock music collection Good, but non-essential  Collectors/fans only  Poor. Only for completionists
...Prog Related and Proto Prog albums are not rated as PROG albums so you can award 5-stars to Kate Bush's "The Kick Inside" with a clear conscience.
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What?
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Figglesnout
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 26 2005
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 19:11 |
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Definitely not.
Edited by The Antique - August 25 2009 at 19:11
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I'm a reasonable man, get off my case
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Atavachron
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Joined: September 30 2006
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 19:30 |
Dean wrote:
I'm in favour of having the word "Prog" removed from all star-rating
definitions for all genres - if the band is Prog enough to be added to
a genre, then that should be enough and all albums should be judged as
pieces of music, not as to whether they are pieces of Progressive Music
or not. |
no I couldn't get behind that -- if it just read
'a masterpiece of music' or of 'rock music', it might seem
presumptuous, plus it would diminish our identity
Edited by Atavachron - August 25 2009 at 19:31
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SaltyJon
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 19:32 |
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No way. Some prog-related albums are, as was previously said, better than some prog albums.
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The T
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Joined: October 16 2006
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 20:24 |
Dean wrote:
J-Man wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to give a prog related album a 5? Just because it's not full-fledged prog doesn't mean it can't be a masterpiece. |
For clarification for those too busy to look:
Essential: a masterpiece of rock music Excellent addition to any rock music collectionGood, but non-essential Collectors/fans only Poor. Only for completionists
...Prog Related and Proto Prog albums are not rated as PROG albums so you can award 5-stars to Kate Bush's "The Kick Inside" with a clear conscience.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 20:47 |
The T wrote:
Dean wrote:
J-Man wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to give a prog related album a 5? Just because it's not full-fledged prog doesn't mean it can't be a masterpiece. |
For clarification for those too busy to look:
Essential: a masterpiece of rock music Excellent addition to any rock music collectionGood, but non-essential Collectors/fans only Poor. Only for completionists
...Prog Related and Proto Prog albums are not rated as PROG albums so you can award 5-stars to Kate Bush's "The Kick Inside" with a clear conscience.
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I have to say it. I really don't like the change as it's limited to rock music. Why not get rid of the rock criterion? One of my favourite albums in the archives is Miles Davis' Sketches of Spain, but that is not rock, so according to the guidelines I could only rate it 3 or under.  Non-rock music is not getting a fair shake.
Edited by Logan - August 25 2009 at 20:49
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Easy Money
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Joined: August 11 2007
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 20:59 |
Logan wrote:
The T wrote:
Dean wrote:
J-Man wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to give a prog related album a 5? Just because it's not full-fledged prog doesn't mean it can't be a masterpiece. |
For clarification for those too busy to look:
Essential: a masterpiece of rock music Excellent addition to any rock music collectionGood, but non-essential Collectors/fans only Poor. Only for completionists
...Prog Related and Proto Prog albums are not rated as PROG albums so you can award 5-stars to Kate Bush's "The Kick Inside" with a clear conscience.
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I have to say it. I really don't like the change as it's limited to rock music. Why not get rid of the rock criterion? One of my favourite albums in the archives is Miles Davis' Sketches of Spain, but that is not rock, so according to the guidelines I could only rate it 3 or under. Non-rock music is not getting a fair shake. |
Hold on Logan, anything can be a great addition to a rock or prog collection. Personally I think having some Sun Ra or Les Baxter is an excellent addition to any collection, rock, prog or otherwise, easy 4 stars. Can a Herbie Hancock album be a prog-rock masterpioece? I think if it uses electronic amplified instruments and amped drums, yes. If it is one of his more jazz albums, 4 is as high as she goes. In other words the incredible Speak Like a Child gets 4, but Crossings gets 5, although on a jazz site they would both get 5s. That's how I see it.
Edited by Easy Money - August 25 2009 at 21:00
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SentimentalMercenary
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 12 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 66
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 21:38 |
Dean wrote:
J-Man wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to give a prog related album a 5? Just because it's not full-fledged prog doesn't mean it can't be a masterpiece. |
For clarification for those too busy to look:
Essential: a masterpiece of rock music Excellent addition to any rock music collectionGood, but non-essential Collectors/fans only Poor. Only for completionists
...Prog Related and Proto Prog albums are not rated as PROG albums so you can award 5-stars to Kate Bush's "The Kick Inside" with a clear conscience.
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Well then I'd like to point out that Bon Jovi made a 10mins song called Dry County which could legitimately be called prog by some. I guess you now see me coming with all those 5 stars Bon Jovi albums... 
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Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell.
- Karl Popper
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SentimentalMercenary
Forum Groupie
Joined: August 12 2009
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 66
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 21:45 |
SaltyJon wrote:
No way. Some prog-related albums are, as was previously said, better than some prog albums. |
Of course, but this is not the point ! The relevant question is if some prog-related albums are as good as the best prog albums...
In other words, could a Kate Bush album be as good as, say, Selling England by the Pound per this site's system of values?
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Those who promise us paradise on earth never produced anything but a hell.
- Karl Popper
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Man With Hat
Collaborator
Jazz-Rock/Fusion/Canterbury Team
Joined: March 12 2005
Location: Neurotica
Status: Offline
Points: 166183
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Posted: August 25 2009 at 21:46 |
Dean wrote:
J-Man wrote:
Why shouldn't you be able to give a prog related album a 5? Just because it's not full-fledged prog doesn't mean it can't be a masterpiece. |
For clarification for those too busy to look:
Essential: a masterpiece of rock music Excellent addition to any rock music collectionGood, but non-essential Collectors/fans only Poor. Only for completionists
...Prog Related and Proto Prog albums are not rated as PROG albums so you can award 5-stars to Kate Bush's "The Kick Inside" with a clear conscience.
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Now I just looked at a prog-related album...and it still has the prog in place.
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I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
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5 stars for prog-related?
