Your definition of an epic

Either a song over 15 minutes or a song with multiple, easily distinguished parts.

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A long track with fantasy lyrics, eg. Hemispheres or anything by Magma.

The Letter M wrote: Strictly speaking about length, I often categorize epic songs in several groups based on song length. You have the short epics which can last 7-12 minutes. There are the regular epics which go from 13-18 minutes. There are Side-Long epics, lasting anywhere from 19-24/25 minutes. (yes I still call modern epics of this length Side-Long epics, like The Great Nothing by Spock's Beard or Stardust We Are by The Flower Kings). Long Epics last from 25-30 minutes, and the aforementioned Flower Kings have a couple of those. Super Epics are any songs from 30-50 minutes, depending on several things. Some examples of this are Dream Theater's Six Degrees or Part I of Neal Morse's Testimony. Anything above 50 minutes might as well be an Epic album, such as Neal Morse's ? or the upcoming Fear Of A Blank Planet, which is said to be like one long song anyways.   As for musical qualities, I do agree that there needs to be some sort of introduction that's a bit drawn out, there are some subsections/movements (although not necesarry), and there's a climax with a powerful, moving ending. There are also many recurring themes or thematic/motific material that is used throughout, or plays a large part in the musical score.   Lyrically, the epic is usually a story, like someone brought up the poetic epic, which are myths and legends told in lengthy poems. I think the best epics are the ones with stories in them, and aren't just about people or things, but about ideas or events, real or not. The lyrics don't all have to tie together though or even make much sense, but if there's a loose connection both musically and lyrically between all the sections, then it becomes an epic.   But that's how I feel about epics. And I love epics.   On a side-note, how do people feel about Epics with subsections? Should they be seperate tracks on the CD or one whole track? By that I mean, would you rather have an album like "The Music That Died Alone" by The Tangent, or the second disc of "Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence", or something more like both Transatlantic albums, where even though they have several parts to them, each song is still one track?   -M.

Well, I am pretty flexible with my epic definitions.  I've even heard songs in the 3 to 4 minute range that I think of as mini-epics because they have distinct parts and go through a cycle of sorts (and no, they can't be verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-chorus type pop songs).  But generally speaking, they have to be over 7 minutes long.  As to Tangerine Dream and similar lengthy atmospheric stuff, I guess I don't really consider those as epics in the traditional sense as they tend to flow as one entity and are fairly simplistic in composition (though they often have various sections to them).

As to breaking epics into tracks...........I really hate when artists do that   In both the cases you mention (Music that died alone and 6 degrees) I join them into single tracks on my computer.  To a certain extent I understand why they might choose to do that, so the listener can clearly see where the artist intended the parts to begin and end, but for the most part I never have much trouble doing that myself when they are one track.

(I am reminded of a CD player a friend of mine had many years ago, that actually showed which part of Cygnus X-1 Book Two from Hemispheres you were currently listening to..........that track is a single 18 minute track, but the song has 5 or 6 parts.......not sure if they make CD players like that anymore and I assume the CD itself would have to have meta data the CD player could read to know which part it was on.........seems like a great thing for prog albums )


Edited by infandous - February 15 2007 at 14:31

An epic song is anything by Rush! 

I feel an epic song is a song that has different parts to it (musical or lyrical). It also helps if the song is longer than 10 minutes. A great instrumental section is always welcomed.

This explains a lot. Thanks

The track Ocean Cloud  from Marbles (marillion) is epic!

Surely they're more epic than hammerfall for example,that's for sure 

inpraiseoffolly wrote: Either a song over 15 minutes or a song with multiple, easily distinguished parts.   Both are used.

yep...pretty much