Progarchives.com has always (since 2002) relied on banners ads to cover web hosting fees and all.
Please consider supporting us by giving monthly PayPal donations and help keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.
/PAlogo_v2.gif "Progarchives.com Homepage") |
Noise as a Constructive Element in Music |
Post Reply 
|
Page 12> |
| Author | |
progaardvark 
Collaborator 
Crossover/Symphonic/RPI Teams Joined: June 14 2007 Location: Sea of Peas Status: Offline Points: 50919 |
 Post Options
 Thanks(2)
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Noise as a Constructive Element in MusicPosted: June 21 2024 at 11:08 |
|
I stumbled upon this open access book published by Taylor & Francis back in 2022 that might be of interest to some readers of this forum: Noise as a Constructive Element in Music: Theoretical and Music-Analytical Perspectives Abstract: Music and noise seem to be mutually exclusive. Music is generally considered as an ordered arrangement of sounds pleasing to the ear and noise as its opposite: chaotic, ugly, aggressive, sometimes even deafening. When presented in a musical context, noise can thus act as a tool to express resistance to predominant cultural values, to society or to socioeconomic structures (including those of the music industry). The oppositional stance confirms current notions of noise as something which is destructive, a belief not only cherished by hard-core rock bands but also shared by engineers and companies developing devices to suppress or reduce noise in our daily environment. In contrast to the common opinions on noise just described, this volume seeks to explore the constructive potential of noise in contemporary musical practices. Rather than viewing noise as a ‘defect’, this volume aims at studying its aesthetic and cultural potential. Within the noise music study field, most recent publications focus on subgenres such as psychedelic post-rock, industrial, hard-core punk, trash or rave, as they developed from rock and popular music. This book includes work on avant-garde music developed in the domain of classical music as well. In addition to already well-established (social) historical and aesthetical perspectives on noise and noise music, this volume offers contributions by music analysts. Available for free download here: https://library.oapen.org/handle/20.500.12657/90105
|
|
|
----------
i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions |
|
 |
|
|
suitkees
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 22 2024 at 02:46 |
|
Thanks, that looks quite interesting indeed, at least some of the articles in it. Downloaded!
|
|
|
The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
|
|
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17487 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 22 2024 at 07:31 |
Hi, I would imagine that this would be far out, and much more interesting, if it took on the history of the "noise" and how it was developed. For example, if you take "Forbidden Planet" and its very electronic sounds, they ended up becoming a part of a lot of science fiction materials, because the noises were so far out, different and helped create images in your head ... one thing that 99% of the audiences today appear to be lacking, thus the need for "lyrics" to tell them what is going on and what this or that is about! (  ).The "exploration" is far more interesting than just about anything ... but that is my own experience. I have always loved the "experiments" in many arts, and the sound/music aspect is as neat and far out, as theater was in the 50's and 60's, destroying the "fourth wall" and then telling all walls to take a hike! This is one thing that popular music, has not done, compared to many of the other arts. I'm looking around for this book ... hopefully I can get it, but it scares me to see things like this ... sometimes, the true center of its birth is missing ... and this is like saying that the instruments are the thing, and screw the folks that played them ... if the player had no "vision" or an adventurous desire to try something new and different, it would not happen ... and many of those folks are not given the credit they deserve. Ex: The knife by Keith Emerson ... was not a take on some of the ideas we had ... it was a way to get those two keys to continue playing ... a sustain that (likely) none of those instruments had at the time (a longer sustain, not the momentary sustain that pianos and most keyboards have). But we think of it as some extreme this or that and not give KE credit for finding a way to get that extended sound he was hoping to get and use. The application of the "noise" is the difference, since "noise" on its own ... is not going to get any attention. Sometimes put us to sleep! But I think that Faust showed us how much fun it could be ...
|
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|
|
|
|
Valdez
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 625 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 22 2024 at 08:07 |
|
If the noise fits... You must acquit! Like Brufords broken Cymbal. Right place, right timing.
|
|
|
https://bakullama1.bandcamp.com/album/sleepers-2024
|
|
|
|
|
I prophesy disaster
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 4772 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 22 2024 at 11:20 |
 |
|
|
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
|
|
|
|
|
Hrychu
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 03 2013 Location: poland? Status: Offline Points: 5346 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 22 2024 at 11:40 |
|
Aren't the hihat cymbals basically that? 🤣
But anyway, due to NES's hardware limitations, a lot of classic video game music off the NES library used de facto white noise as percussion! Edited by Hrychu - June 22 2024 at 11:42 |
|
|
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong |
|
|
|
|
Archisorcerus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 02 2022 Location: Izmir Status: Offline Points: 2659 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 22 2024 at 11:41 |
|
Like a construction worker does?
 
|
|
|
|
|
suitkees
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 25 2024 at 08:58 |
|
^ You mean "concrete music"? |
|
|
The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
|
|
|
|
mellotronwave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 30 2021 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 9946 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
Quote Reply
Posted: June 25 2024 at 15:54 |
|
Einstürzende Neubauten 's early works come to mind
|
|
|
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17487 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 11 2024 at 11:26 |
HI, I was thinking that Faust would be more interesting, since they used a lot of sound effects run through many synthes and other units to distort the sound. This, by itself was not knew ... Spike MIlligan (The Goons 50's English Radio Comedy) was insane and had the run of the BBC's sound effects library that apparently was at 24 LP's at one time. He would speed things up or slow them down and create a lot of far out things that defied description ... try the sock full of "custaaaard" which is throw at the wall, and occasionally at some folks ... or better yet, the pudding hurler using the ppuddings as bombs! It was "noise" in that we could not identify the sound if it were elsewhere and not within a comedy skit ... and this hurt the Goons later and prevented them from getting on TV ... the sound effects were not going to translate well, compared to YOUR imagination of what they did and the sound was.
|
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|
|
|
|
Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14691 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 11 2024 at 11:34 |
|
The go to address for music made out of noises (and often really only the noises
 ) is this:
|
|
|
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17487 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 11 2024 at 18:46 |
Hi, Guy Guden, from 1974 for a few years used to do what we ended up calling "mind melts" which were really about the noise, and its various applications, and then infused a wee bit with comedy capers to make them easier to get through and enjoy them. But it was difficult to not hear some early Guru Guru, do noise effectively with Ax Gernrich and make them sound like broken washing machines ... doing laundry ... that got clean, too!  . It was, by far, one of the best moments in Guy's show, even 50 years later ... it's hard to not enjoy or appreciate them, and several of them survived the 120 minute cassettes to be heard again, and occasionally make an appearance in the current version of SPR.Guy's takes on noise and sound effects was far out ... and if I made a list of them, it would probably make a far out album ... but I bet those sound effects albums (and other proper albums!!!) took a serious beating now and then. Don't ask him about Halloween, you'll regret it!
|
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|
|
|
|
cstack3
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 7264 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 16 2024 at 21:31 |
|
My own recordings make generous use of modified noise! One of my songs, "666" features a chunk of sheet metal tapped by a drummer to keep time with the music....when miked and played through phase shifter, the sound is ethereal. A huge railroad wrench was similarly miked and modified, becoming more ghostly than a church bell.
One of my favorite noise techniques is to put a coin inside of a child's balloon, inflate & tie the balloon, start the coin spinning in the inside circumference of the balloon, and then put it up to a microphone. When you do not have the money to buy a Mini Moog, you have to improvise!
|
|
|
I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
|
|
|
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17487 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 04:41 |
Hi, Nice. Not just improvise, I don't think, but also have the imagination to ... something is missing here in a spot and yesterday afternoon you had a thought about doing this and that ... and wondered what that sounded like. Also, the same thing that helped movies 100 years ago ... new sounds, some just being shown as the real thing, a gun, a locomotive, a car ... many sounds that were not recognizable by most folks around the world. Thus, specially in comedy, the desire/ability to create weirdness out of nothing or something else, was one of the creative methods of opening up the imagination. In general, this is something that is missing, TODAY, in most music ... which can only do, or follow, the dictates that have been defined are what "music" was, and is. Thus, you get a lot of rock bands, just doing the same thing over and over again, and no ability to go "find" something new and interesting, not to mention that for most "songwriters" it has all become about being clever with a few words, and nothing else ... music, at one time, was not words, and the history of music, is very much about what a lot of that music meant, and was about ... really ... new sounds that most had not heard ... and music only travelled in the notes that were recorded on a piece of paper. THIS, btw, is very important, because everyone that could "read" the notes and visualize them, would have developed an imagination around that piece of music ... TODAY this is NOT ALLOWED. because that it what "lyrics" are for. A sad example I heard, was when one day at the lake, I was playing Ozric Tentacles and it was a long cut, as usual, and one guy after a few minutes of it went ... where's the lyrics? The development of "sound effects" is where a lot of noise came from, and it is sort of like saying that if you can not "define it" then it is noise ... but today, the use of the word, is very misleading and sometimes completely off key. The odd thing, that we don't like to say, think, about music is that it is ... organized noise that we think is now more meaningful than not. And guess where the confusion starts?
Edited by moshkito - July 17 2024 at 04:46 |
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|
|
|
|
Saperlipopette!
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 20 2010 Location: Tomorrowland Status: Offline Points: 11589 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 17 2024 at 04:54 |
|
Rarely do I seek out noise, but this still looks right up my alley. When done well, noise can be cleansing. Cathartic even: |
|
|
|
|
moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 17487 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 18 2024 at 10:02 |
|
Hi,
I think that what makes "noise" more interesting is the CONTEXT with which it is used ... thus the sound of something by itself is not as good, as if it was exposed next to something else with or against it. The scary part, for me, about the book, is how they will likely read some of our comments and then update their book with them, and consider it their original piece of work. I'm not worried about being ripped off but I have already seen, things I said 10 years ago included in a few places, and I am not going to specify them as I am not trying to embarrass anyone, and take away their "drive" to add something to the topic. It all matters in the end, but there won't be a thank you for many of us at all. The development of "noise" and its use, has been very important to the 20th century classical music scene, but not exactly to the rock and jazz scene, that are more formulated than they are experimental. I'm not sure that a good book can be done about "noise" unless its history is included, and it has to have classical music, film (specially) and comedy ... if you want an experience on how to deal with noise and orchestration, get one of the Carl Stalling CD's and without the visuals, what he has done is very challenging, and something that we do not have the patience for ... you can not, even formulate a story easily enough off the sound effects since it's hard to find a link between them. I, sometimes, wish all the comments here were valuable ... but the silence if deafening!
|
|
|
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|
|
|
|
Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14691 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 18 2024 at 15:45 |
|
I have this on offer:
Edited by Lewian - July 18 2024 at 15:46 |
|
|
|
|
Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14691 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 18 2024 at 15:47 |
Can you link us some?
|
|
|
|
|
Lewian
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14691 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 18 2024 at 16:12 |
|
"Music and noise seem to be mutually exclusive. Music is generally considered as an ordered arrangement of sounds pleasing to the ear and noise as its opposite: chaotic, ugly, aggressive, sometimes even deafening." I think that I have never thought like this. There's rather obviously music that fulfills other aims than being "pleasing to the ear", and the term "noise" is attributed by the listener dependent on the way of listening. "Noises" can also be generally used for sounds. The ear through conscious and open minded listening can create appeal or even harmony out of sounds that'd otherwise be "noise". "Noise" can be composed to create music (in the sense of "ordered arrangement") but for the creative ear that might not even be necessary. (Context may be key though as written by Pedro.)
Funex enjoying themselves (ourselves
) making noise (with limited amounts of noisiness):Edited by Lewian - July 18 2024 at 16:58 |
|
|
|
|
Atavachron
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Online Points: 65243 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 18 2024 at 16:20 |
|
Yet the very distinction between music & noise indicates the difference between the two. The inclusion of noise into music does not negate the nature of noise, and that breach must exist in order to realize music itself as a singular construct.
|
|
|
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page 12> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Topic Options
progaardvark wrote: