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Prog created with the help of AI
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arohtelp View Drop Down
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    Posted: April 26 2024 at 11:27
I know that this is rather controversial topic, however I see AI music apps (like SUNO and UDIO) as very advanced music creation tools. And it should be noted that creating something really similar to decent prog in them is not so easy. This actually requires a lot of human input. My experiments have shown that SUNO v3 is not yet very suitable for creating a prog. But UDIO v1 allows, with sufficient persistence, to get pretty good results. I created several songs using my own lyrics in UDIO v1.
Some examples:
Progressive rock slightly reminiscent of Porcupine Tree: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Coe8J7Q7msQ
Progressive metal similar to a mixture of Mastodon and Haken: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmvs2K3mwkE
Progressive metal / Alternative metal vaguely reminiscent of Tool and Deftones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1FpXsCPYTw
Progressive rock in the spirit of early Genesis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuCkiDaUykE
Epic progressive rock with female vocals (the style reminds me of someone, but I can’t figure out who) :  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHefMS2zGmM
Alternative rock in the spirit of Skunk Anansie (it's not prog but this song shows amazing vocals that UDIO can do): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To_ZpgnUaME
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2024 at 12:45
There's already a thread for this on the forums:
http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=132798
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thank you
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AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
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Points: 18265 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2024 at 14:57
Let's see them try to tackle Yes, GG or VDGG. The Genesis one doesn't sound much like Genesis to me but the PT is pretty spot on I'd say.
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As a musician, I find the concept of AI-anything music to be incredibly tasteless, irresponsible, and just plain evil.

Edited by Boojieboy - April 26 2024 at 16:03
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Frets N Worries View Drop Down
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Points: 4202 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frets N Worries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 26 2024 at 16:15
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Let's see them try to tackle Yes, GG or VDGG. The Genesis one doesn't sound much like Genesis to me but the PT is pretty spot on I'd say.


Agree, I'd love to hear AI attempt a VDGG song.
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Nope…
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Points: 2779 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Crimson776 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2024 at 00:30
AI has trouble with Prog, which is just more evidence (not that we needed it) that Prog is more creative than most music.

Edited by King Crimson776 - April 28 2024 at 01:24
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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verslibre View Drop Down
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Points: 17109 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 28 2024 at 10:16
Originally posted by Boojieboy Boojieboy wrote:

As a musician, I find the concept of AI-anything music to be incredibly tasteless, irresponsible, and just plain evil.
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arohtelp View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arohtelp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2024 at 11:45
I was able to create a few more relatively decent prog songs in UDIO with my lyrics. This time they are not so similar to any existing bands, although of course they sound quite eclectic.
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suitkees View Drop Down
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Points: 9050 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2024 at 12:27
^ Interesting experiment. Not that I'm impressed with the results, because it sounds to me very much like "prog by numbers" (but there are some real prog bands that make music in a similar way: following formulas...).

It would be interesting for us to know what parameters/instructions you fed to the software to produce this. And, you talk about the lyrics, but the singing is that AI generated? Anyway, thanks for sharing these experiments - I'm not convinced (yet) that it can produce interesting music...

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Points: 13054 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2024 at 12:33
The Genesis AI was absolutely dreadful. It sounds like a turgidly trite ballad from an 80s hair band. With keys.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2024 at 13:05
Quote I was able to create a few more relatively decent prog songs in UDIO with my lyrics. This time they are not so similar to any existing bands, although of course they sound quite eclectic.
Excuse me. What?
Quote I was able to create relatively decent prog songs in UDIO
What? 🤣🤣🤣
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arohtelp View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote arohtelp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2024 at 14:11
At the moment, it is difficult to create something really unique (especially in the prog genre) in UDIO, since human influence on the process of creating a track is not yet sufficient. 
All music and vocals are completely generated by UDIO using my lyrics. UDIO can generate lyrics itself, but they are not very good yet. 
In the early stages, I tried to remove vocals from the tracks and sing myself, but my vocal technique is a little lacking for this genre. In short, if I could sing like that, I would sing it myself :)
Describing the details of creating specific tracks will be very difficult and time-consuming. But in general, the algorithm is: I took my lyrics, chose a style (or several styles) and accompanying tags (like "emotional", "melancholic", "calm", etc.) and generated the first 32 seconds of the composition many times until I got something decent sounding. And then repeated the same for the next 32 seconds, and the next, etc. During the process, I also changed the tags for subsequent parts of the track to move the composition in the desired direction. You kind of give general instructions to UDIO, and then choose the best option from those offered. On average, it took me 60-70 generations to create one composition. In principle, UDIO can be considered a kind of very advanced musical instrument. Although at this stage I would not say that I actually composed music, I rather created it using UDIO. 
I want to emphasize this point. This music was not created by UDIO, I created it using UDIO. UDIO by itself, without human participation, cannot create this kind of music. At least for now, anyway :)
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Sebastianmoto View Drop Down
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Points: 129 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sebastianmoto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 19 2024 at 14:30
Can UDIO even produce anything unique? If it is built upon pre-existing data, is it not bound to always rehash ideas from actual musicians?

If AI can never be 'progressive' then at least the impending threat of AI music might force musicians to stay one step ahead. As long as PA never accepts AI music it'll outlive the internet itself, because we'll never be able to trust another site again soon Wink.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2024 at 00:57
Arohtelp, you're confusing creating music with clicking a button and a getting and audio result spat out by a procedural generator based on vague prompts/parameters!

The former result matches the creator's vision, while the latter merely matches the prompt and whatever data the overglorified scammer's toy was trained upon.

Please watch this video made by someone with legit knowledge. Get educated, folks!


Edited by Hrychu - June 20 2024 at 01:51
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 43600 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2024 at 01:08
That Genesis cloning song is rather awful TBH. Ermm
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arohtelp View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arohtelp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2024 at 03:23
The problem is not even to create something unique (a random number generator can do that), but to make it unique and enjoyable to listen to. However, the biological neural network in our head somehow does this, so I don't think artificial neural networks can't achieve it. I think that in 5 years all mainstream pop music will be composed by neural networks, and in 10 years each person will have a special neural network that will compose music just for him in a fully automatic mode. For human composers to compete with this, they need to be geniuses on the level of Bach, and even then they will only be listened to by a very narrow circle of connoisseurs. This will be niche art. 
I will give a specific example. I really like music that I made with the help of UDIO. Despite the fact that I objectively understand that it is quite average and generic. The thing is that when I created it, I chose those generated pieces that I liked most. The result is compositions that seem tailor-made specifically for me. 
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arohtelp View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote arohtelp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2024 at 04:16
I've been composing music as a hobby for 25 years. 24 of them without AI assistance:) I see the difference, which is why I use the term "create" rather than "compose". As for the video, it describes the SUNO.ai, which is much worse than UDIO in terms of sound quality and, most importantly, in terms of the degree to which a person can influence the composition. At the moment it is only suitable for producing simple catchy pop songs, which is what I did a few months ago, but then I quickly got tired of it.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5357 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 20 2024 at 05:17
Quote I've been composing music as a hobby for 25 years. 24 of them without AI assistance
If so, then there's nothing stopping you from continuing to use the legit and not so frowned upon (for a good reason imo) methods. B) Hey! Why won't you share your old songs that you'd composed before the advent of those AI toys? That would be a miles more interesting listen than what you've shared here so far!
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