A Real Mudvayne Suggestion (EM/PR)

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   In terms of the archetypal "progressive metal" genre, Mudvayne is a bit of a weird topic. However in my time of listening to them they've provided some of the most interesting and eclectic albums of the last decade for the metal circuit. There are a few songs I've selected that you may find interesting. This suggestion is for either prog related or experimental/post-metal, though those genres can be changed at any point depending on what the consensus is.
I'm not giving you a free copy of my album either if you add them, so you don't have to worry about that.

Although it may not matter much Mudvayne is also listed as "progressive rock" and "progressive metal" on Wikipedia.

Edited by aglasshouse - July 28 2016 at 10:20

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aglasshouse Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: August 27 2014 Location: riding the MOAB Status: Offline Points: 1505	Topic: A Real Mudvayne Suggestion (EM/PR) Posted: July 27 2016 at 18:02
	In terms of the archetypal "progressive metal" genre, Mudvayne is a bit of a weird topic. However in my time of listening to them they've provided some of the most interesting and eclectic albums of the last decade for the metal circuit. There are a few songs I've selected that you may find interesting. This suggestion is for either prog related or experimental/post-metal, though those genres can be changed at any point depending on what the consensus is. I'm not giving you a free copy of my album either if you add them, so you don't have to worry about that. Although it may not matter much Mudvayne is also listed as "progressive rock" and "progressive metal" on Wikipedia. Edited by aglasshouse - July 28 2016 at 10:20
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yam yam Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Special Collaborator Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Offline Points: 7062	Posted: July 27 2016 at 19:30
	This is the fifth suggestion for Mudvayne as far as I can tell, and all the other threads are locked, so I guess you had no alternative other than to start a new one. The others are: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=106645 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66313 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44341 http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=15675 However, there have been no new releases since the last suggestion, and the band has never been added to progfreak as far as I can see - which would have happened if anyone in the Prog Metal team thought they were worthy of an evaluation. The Prog Related category itself is exceedingly hard to get into these days. For any band or artist to make it there now, they firstly have to be a really well known name, secondly need to have made their mark on or have influenced the development of prog rock in some readily definable way, and thirdly need to have the support of one of our Special Collaborators, who would have to be sufficiently convinced of their merit for inclusion to prepare a case on their behalf to present to admins. Based on the general consensus of the replies in the previous threads, I can't really see this happening.

aglasshouse Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: August 27 2014 Location: riding the MOAB Status: Offline Points: 1505	Posted: July 28 2016 at 02:29
	To be clear I did read the past suggestions for Mudvayne and they were denied for prog-related. However I did see some members talking about them in the sense of "math-rock/metal", which is now a genre. I also think the "experimental metal" side fits with Mudvayne as well as with that here now they might find a place on the site. And not counting the aforementioned bribery topic the band hasn't been suggested in six years. Like I said, experimental metal opens up some new avenues for their addition that weren't present before now. Edited by aglasshouse - July 28 2016 at 02:30
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Terrapin Station Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: July 23 2016 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 383	Posted: July 28 2016 at 07:20
	The way I've always seen it, ever since the term first appeared at the end of the 60s/beginning of the 70s, is that what makes (heavy) metal metal rather than hard rock in the first place is that metal has prog elements . . . which makes "prog metal" a difficult concept, as metal is basically "prog hard rock," though with the exception that most metal does not meld elements of different genres with hard rock. Prog in other contexts tends to frequently meld elements of other genres with whatever the parent genre is (whatever x is for a given progressive x, or whatever x fusion we're talking about). I don't think it's a good idea to make something like progarchives into a metal database, though. There are way too many metal artists. They'd dominate the database in that case. And there's already Encyclopedia Metallum, which does a fine job as a metal database. On the other hand, I wouldn't remove the "prog metal" artists that are here, necessarily, but it's messy in that I don't think there's at all a clear dividing line between what's essentially "prog hard rock" and "proggier prog hard rock."

aglasshouse Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: August 27 2014 Location: riding the MOAB Status: Offline Points: 1505	Posted: July 28 2016 at 09:51
	I agree that the band is not fit for the prog metal genre, therefore I didn't suggest them to be added to it. However I do believe that the band's style and experimental qualities (especially on their first two albums) guarantee them for the experimental/post-metal genre, which did not exist when they were suggested in the past. Mudvayne I don't think is as stunning of a proposal for a metal band as say Limp Bizkit, so it's not that earth-shattering of a question. Not to mention that this site is in no way in danger of becoming a metal resource because many if not all the metal bands on this site harbour a place for a very good reason.
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Terrapin Station Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: July 23 2016 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 383	Posted: July 28 2016 at 09:53
	They don't seem like experimental metal to me, though. Re the "post" genres, I think just about every one of them is a mess conceptually, especially in a context where there's supposed to be any distinction between them and prog in general.

aglasshouse Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Reviewer page Forum Senior Member Joined: August 27 2014 Location: riding the MOAB Status: Offline Points: 1505	Posted: July 28 2016 at 10:05
	First off I don't think they belong in the post-metal genre; I'm mainly talking about the experimental side of it, so we can throw that out of the window. With that in mind, if we look at what would qualify as "experimental metal" as a definition, then to me Mudvayne certainly seems to fall in quite nicely. I hate to use Wikipedia but the first few sentences explains it very well in my opinion. "[Experimental metal/avant-garde metal is] loosely defined by use of experimentation and innovative, avant-garde elements, including non-standard and unconventional sounds, instruments, song structures, playing styles, and vocal techniques." I would tend to agree that this is what it means and PA seems to as well, seeing as it's own definition practically states the same thing: "Experimental progressive metal is a sub-genre of progressive metal characterized by the incorporation of innovative, eclectic elements, large-scale experimentation and the use of non-standard and unconventional sounds, instruments, song structures, playing styles, and vocal techniques." I simply believe that the band does fall into these categories, especially with material from their first two albums, but I digress. Edited by aglasshouse - July 28 2016 at 10:21
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