Dire Straits: Prog-Related? YES.

Here's what I think happens, at least for me.  Many of us have bands that we love.  If they happen to be of an era that was perhaps a bit devoid of prog (the '80s), then perhaps we start seeing prog-related tendencies in some of their output.  So for a couple of my favorites of the '80s -- Dire Straits and XTC -- I start ascribing certain prog-related characteristics to some of their songs or albums.  After all, there weren't too many other bands of that era creating music -- even if it's only rock or pop -- quite so sophisticated.  This is where I start to lose some objectivity, perhaps.  I mean, Dire Straits and XTC are two bands who were really pushing the envelope, or what envelope there was, back then.  But I suppose in the end highly sophisticated rock is just that. 

jammun wrote: Here's what I think happens, at least for me.  Many of us have bands that we love.  If they happen to be of an era that was perhaps a bit devoid of prog (the '80s), then perhaps we start seeing prog-related tendencies in some of their output.  So for a couple of my favorites of the '80s -- Dire Straits and XTC -- I start ascribing certain prog-related characteristics to some of their songs or albums.  After all, there weren't too many other bands of that era creating music -- even if it's only rock or pop -- quite so sophisticated.  This is where I start to lose some objectivity, perhaps.  I mean, Dire Straits and XTC are two bands who were really pushing the envelope, or what envelope there was, back then.  But I suppose in the end highly sophisticated rock is just that.    That being said, if either band were to end up here on the basis of Love Over Gold or Skylarking, as prog-related, I do not think I'd be too concerned.

No please Jammun, except Supertramp (Whoi I believe should be in Prog Related due to 2 albums, the rest are clearly Progressive.

jammun wrote: Quick, of the following, name the proggiest song, all of which got considerable rotation on MTV at the time: Peter Gabriel:  Sledgehammer (granted, comes along a few years vs. the other two) Rush:  New World Man Dire Straits:  Industrial Disease   I'm not even particularly lobbying for Dire Straits.   But as I said,  I suppose in the end highly sophisticated rock is just that.    Just sayin'.

But the thing people seem to be missing about 80s output is that many bands were influenced by the classic prog period, even if their music wasn't prog. That's what you're hearing when you listen to Love Over Gold - a layer of progressive arrangements draped over rock music. The same for so many other 80s bands. U2's 'Unforgettable Fire'? Of course - look who produced the album. Listen to the title track and you'll hear a prog arrangement of a rock song. And so on. Remember, many of these musicians grew up listening to prog, and it had an effect!

But they weren't writing or playing prog music.


Edited by russellk - May 13 2009 at 01:53

Possibly the song 'Sunshine and Happiness' on Devin Townsend's Album Synchestra was influenced by 'Twisting by the Pool'? 

Dire Straits' only claim for here is Love Over Gold. >>> superb album.  And the only really prog track in thayt album is Private InvestigationS.

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote: No please Jammun, except Supertramp (Whoi I believe should be in Prog Related due to 2 albums, the rest are clearly Progressive.   Lerts see the evolution:   1.- When the thread started, Dire Straits was a Prog related band 2.- After a few posts, the supporters aggreed that their case was reduced to one pure^Prog album. 3.- Now they don't have a Pure Prog album according to all.   I know Prog Related is not pure Prog------------BUT IT HAS TO BE RELATED AT LEAST.   Iván

As a side point, if you want to call Grace Under Pressure (I notice it was in that list of yours of 'prog bands' in the 80s) progressive and Love Over Gold not... remember that  Love Over Gold actually fits most of the criteria of all prog you've stated in the site definitions. Even most of the Rush fans I know round here agree GUP is just damn good synth/art pop, and is at best 'progressive' by being a change in Rush's sound.

--

Let's not twist and misrepresent the general flow of the thread. Someone opened the thread with the starting point of his progressive rock playlist, which, while not evidence in itself, is food for thought. His thoughts were clearly that over the general career, they should have been in as related. I brought another argument in and put a lot of stress in it, which does not contradict his argument at all. I certainly think Making Movies, for instance, would be related material for the most part, and there are moments on other albums which could be linked to prog. I just think that Love Over Gold remains the central point of this discussion. And in the last case, it's not according to all. I specifically stressed that having a 'not-quite-prog' song didn't make an album not pure prog (see Foxtrot, for instance, one classical guitar piece on there... that's certainly not prog. How about Animals? the two Pigs On The Wing bits?), and again, I put a fair bit of emphasis on the fact that both of those tracks were at least related and could reasonably fall into the prog remit. What he clearly wanted was a specific argument explaining why they shouldn't be here in PR. I think we've yet to have much in that respect, though there have been some admirable points made against.

Now, this bit seems to have been largely ignored:

Furthermore, I cite the inclusion of Dire Straits in a prominent Progressive Rock radio show: (San Francisco Bay Area's 98.5 KFOX's) Greg Stone's "Stone Trek" (see here: http://www.till.com/BayProg/radio.html).  Stone is a true veteran DJ and longtime Prog fan.  On his old page on the KFOX site (he was a victim of the recent Clear Channel layoffs), he had a picture of himself and David Gilmour from an interview, just in case you have doubts about his legitimacy.

Of the songs mentioned in that initial post, I'd regard some of them as related, myself, and I think most could be considered related if you went by a light definition.

Various quotes were pulled out of previous threads. Interestingly, in that poll you were mentioning, now I've dug it up... 1) it's not the one I was thinking about, admittedly, 2) your argument for it being evidence against them would have been much stronger if you'd stressed it was by collaborators. On the other hand:

3) four collaborators, people the site has recognised for their knowledge of/contribution to progressive rock, supported their inclusion, including undeniably one of the most widely-listened people on the site and our most prolific reviewer. I couldn't have voted in that one, so, for the moment, so that's five.

Interestingly enough, I think times have changed somewhat since then - Hendrix and Metallica are here now, so I'd have to guess the site is maybe more inclusive now. The T was clearly annoyed enough by the taboo on Metallica discussion that he mentioned it in one of those threads.

i am a big fan of Dire Straits, i have all their albums - Love Over Gold is a strong case for calling them a Prog band but one album does not make a band Prog.

That, for instance, would be a quote in support, according to my arguments, even if it registers as a vote against... so, in that case, I think, you'd have to say that it's a vote against site policy as much as against the band inclusion, no?

Edit: sorry, just saw Sean Trane's post above mine, which assumption I made from his response to the previous poll. My bad.


Edited by TGM: Orb - May 13 2009 at 12:59

*spills full-sugar non-Diet Coke in lap, but misses and dribbles fizzy pop down spandex shirt front*

So we're left with the centerpiece of the arguement - Telegraph Road.
I hate to dredge, but some obscure groups with only 2-3 albums have gotten in some genres with half an album that was prog, another that had one prog song, and a debut that could not even be described as sophisticated.
Sooooo .... I do believe that there is a consensus that Telegraph Road is prog. We now have a 7 song album with one outright rock n roll tune. 2 mid length extended jams. And on what used to be an LP side, something quite close if not full blown prog.
Can we compromise and say "man, this is too close to call" ?