Why is Tull's "A Passion Play" rated so low?

Edited by thief - October 15 2019 at 05:17

thief wrote: My big issue with this thread is an arrogant suggestion made a couple pages earlier, that one's appreciation of APP is simply dependant on that individual's knowledge, sophistication or education. This statement is wrong on so many levels: it's simplistic, condescending, derogatory and most of all false. Just a quick look at APP reviews prove that some of the smartest and most eloquent chaps on this site gave it middling (or negative) ratings. I haven't reviewed A Passion Play on progarchives yet, but I wouldn't give any album a perfect rating just for the ingenious lyrics and knowledgeable spin on historical literary forms and/or traditions. The instrumental side, a proper 'musical' content, to me, is always the more important ingredient. And I believe the same is true for most listeners in general. I don't have to be spoonfed easy-to-track, simple chord progressions or generic lead guitar chops played in pentatonic - but I need my music to be engaging, interesting, memorable, you name it... it has to be pleasing in some sort of way. APP has a fair share of interesting, mysterious moments. At times it's beautiful and even manages to be stunning. But it's also heavy-handed and subpar on some occasions. "Critique Oblique" or "Best Friends" can't hold a candle to "Legends and Believe in the Day", "Childhood Heroes", "Poet and the Painter".... or any other TAAB section, for that matter.

  I beg to differ that starting from a point of knowledge is necessarily arrogant.  Personal insight, education and life experience do add to the way one can respond to art.  Hence, no two people read the same book, nor do they hear precisely the same music.  I believe this is also why, with time, one may view a book, visual art, or music differently, as perspectives change.  Or not.  All of this is entirely subjective and personal, not worth "arguing," over....however, yes to discussion to understand the perspective of others.

SteveG wrote: ^ What's a PA forum without a good argument? It shakes out the cobwebs.

SteveG wrote: ^ What's a PA forum without a good argument? It shakes out the cobwebs.

The lyrical content is open to interpretation?
E.g.
The ice cream lady wets her drawers.
A. The female in question is subject to stress incontinence?
B. The female in question is sexually excited?
C. The female in question is playing with water in the kitchen?
D. Ice cream lady is a euphemism for a transvestite who likes to dress in cream womens clothing and is a water-sports enthusiast?
Which is it?

Oh no...my 'idol' is this faux French guy who posts here.

Snicolette wrote: dr wu23 wrote: Snicolette wrote: Note that they are from different perspectives, however. One was from the time and the other fairly recent, so in retrospect.  Just noting that they are not from the same period.   And that's true...but I'm sure one could find plenty of both negative as well as positive reviews over the years in general..........but regarding your comment on 'thiefs' comment ; I thought he was saying that he thought the poster who made the comment about having literary knowledge was being somewhat arrogant about those listeners  picking on the album not being able to 'understand it'....not that having a background  was necessarily a bad thing.   I can see that take on it as well, if so, my apologies for misunderstanding the intent.  Thank you for pointing that out.

thief wrote: Snicolette wrote: dr wu23 wrote: Snicolette wrote: Note that they are from different perspectives, however. One was from the time and the other fairly recent, so in retrospect.  Just noting that they are not from the same period.   And that's true...but I'm sure one could find plenty of both negative as well as positive reviews over the years in general..........but regarding your comment on 'thiefs' comment ; I thought he was saying that he thought the poster who made the comment about having literary knowledge was being somewhat arrogant about those listeners  picking on the album not being able to 'understand it'....not that having a background  was necessarily a bad thing.   I can see that take on it as well, if so, my apologies for misunderstanding the intent.  Thank you for pointing that out.   Dr Wu is right here, I definitely have nothing against a thorough, educated analysis of a piece of art - on the contrary, I advocate for listeners taking their time and sharing any lil piece of information with us. We've seen it in this thread and I'm thankful! But to simply suggest that APP criticism is equivalent to being uneducated or unable to comprehend its greatness, thats nuts.

I understand The Dark Elf's appreciation of APP based on his identifications and interpretations of past  literature but I feel that it in no way excuses the turgid music that accompanies it. I like the lyrics to a couple of Kiss songs but..you know..

Edited by SteveG - October 22 2019 at 07:42

Rednight wrote: SteveG wrote: Neither Tull nor Anderson has played APP live or edited on stage since they abandoned the album in 1973. A total of 46 years. Now, if that doesn't comment on the album then nothing will. Abandoned? Too pat of a wrap-up, Steve-O. 'Tull played the piece in its entirety on around 52 U.S. tour dates alone (not counting those in Europe). I can only imagine how GRUELING that must have been for the lads. I think when all was said and done with 'Play live, the band had adequately demonstrated its devoted commitment to the piece and could easily go nearly 50 years without reprising it again, either as a whole or an edit.

My info come froms this authorized Tull bio. Strange how Ian could play his saxes for the concerts when he sold them halfway through the tour. And strange how Tull was able to play edited versions of TAAB for 30 plus years. I guess TAAB was simpler to perform then APP. Try again Rednight, without looking so foolish..

Edited by SteveG - October 22 2019 at 11:49

dr prog wrote: Just got the Stormwatch remix. Tull have just opened the gap on the second best band ever even more. Orion 9 minutes of prog goodness

Mine should arrive in a short time (next week probably) but I'll wait the first snow before unwrapping.

Shouldn't be very long now, darlings.