Dream Theater's BC&SL Discussion

^Yes, I might go ahead an check out A Change of Seasons and Falling into Infinity. A Change of Seasons is one of, if not the best Dream Theater song. Falling into Infinity has some amazing tracks, but be aware that half of the tracks are pretty weak.

Negoba wrote: I heard a Change of Seasons years ago and remember liking it. Maybe that's where I'll go. I actually liked the debut album back in the day.   I probably need to bite the bullet and do the time to really let Scenes from a Memory sink in. I listened to it a couple times when it came out, but really didn't spend the time I should have.

Don't forget Falling Into Infinity! New Millenium, Trial of Tears, Peruvian Skies, Anna Lee, Just Let Me Breathe, Lines in Sand, Hell's Kitchen, they're all excellent songs!

I wasn't going to post here, because I thought that people would think that I'm trolling. This is my honest opinion and I hope no one gets offended.

First of all the gothic sounding keyboards in the first track just sound horrible. I mean the whole gothic feel they're trying to achieve just doesn't work. On top of that it just seems totally pointless. Then later we have the quieter sections and instrumental passages. But the problem is that none of them compliment the other. They all just seem pointless. The gothic keyboards return in the end, but still just pointless. It all just seems like a silly formula. You start a song with something, then do a different sounding section, then maybe something instrumental, then something else and back to where you started from. But it just doesn't work. To me it's only a formula nothing more.

Then we have the samples. I think they were covered pretty well earlier in this thread. I mean what was the point of that car crash?

Then we have LaBrie trying to sound badass. That just made me laugh. I wish he could just sing the way he did in the I&W to FII era. A Nightmare to Remember is a good example of him trying to sound really badass, but failing miserably.

Portnoy's "growling" is just laughable. And that deep voice sample on the AA track is probably the worst sample I've heard in DT history.

Another thing is the "emotional" solos. I think it was The Best of Times that had one of these. A few tracks had some solos that clearly tried being emotional, but they don't work at all. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's the bad lyrics, but the songs themselves don't sound emotional at all. When you add an emotional solo to that equation it just sounds silly. I seriously laughed at many points of this album.

Oh and then Pornoy's tasteless double bass drumming. I mean what happened to him. I listened to 6:00 and wow it's like a different drummer.

There's probably much more that I forgot, but all in all I'd probably give it 1 star. It's easily the worst album I've heard all year. And I really like everything DT did up to FII. Sorry if I offend anyone, but this is how I feel. I probably didn't use the best words possible, but I just find the whole album tasteless, pointless and laughably bad.

Negoba wrote: The main reason we're reconsidering is the loss of PoS and Beardfish. I pretty much knew what I was going to get with DT. I didn't mean to say Rudess wasn't a musician at all, just that he's more of a player and less of a big picture guy like Moore is.   I was a big fan of the shred scene long before Pertucci was its standard bearer and he's pretty average. He just hasn't added anything as a guitarist to what had already been done. You have to remember, Varney was putting out a new guy every 6 months in those days, and many of those guys are legends of the shred scene now. I had all their debut albums (Greg Howe, Jason Becker, Tony MacAlpine, Vinnie Moore....on and on.) What I liked about him most was his riffs, which were the first to use mathematical subdivisions to create strange syncopations. But with bands like Meshuggah taking that ball and running so much further with it....   Anyway, I'm leaning toward going, mainly after watching some youtube of Zappa play Zappa.   If I'm going to check out a Rudess-era album, where would start?

I do kinda get what you're saying about Petrucci, in terms of lead guitar.
You're right, all the tapping, sweep picking, legato, alternate picking, it had been done before really.
You're right about his innovations with rhythm guitar though, it's often overlooked because he is seen first and foremost a shred hero, whereas I think he's an amazing, versatile all rounder.

What is often forgotten though, is the use of the 7 string on Awake.
In terms of the modern 7 string, Vai was first with his use in Whitesnake and his album Passion and Warfare, and of course, we had Korn in 1994 with their debut, funnily enough also using an Ibanez Universe for the album.
But in the world of technical metal playing, practically no one before Petrucci was rocking a 7 string.
Sure, guys  were tuning their 6 strings down, but usually only drop D or maybe D standard at most at the most, not much lower on average.
Petrucci's work on Awake with the 7 string is probably the first time a prog metal band had fused a super heavy Pantera-ish groove metal riff played on a 7 string, yet unlike the down tuned groove metal bands of the time Petrucci took full advantage of the extended range of the 7 string to create crazy soloing lines.
To a lot of 6 stringers it might not mean much, but you go on guitar forums and talk to 7 string players, about 1/4 of those 7 string players say if it wasn't for Petrucci and the stuff he did on a 7, they wouldn't be playing 7 strings today. It really did impact a lot of players in a huge way, but of course it's not hugely noticeable to the average joe because the 7 string guitar is still a relatively niche instrument.
Petrucci took a risk when he used the 7, because it just wasn't done in prog metal before and ultimately it ended up being a big contribution to the way heavy metal is today.

Kinda why I hate the new record in a way, because it lacks the risk taking that truly drove records like Awake to be so stunning and innovative.



Edited by Petrovsk Mizinski - July 03 2009 at 07:07

Dalezilla wrote: I wasn't going to post here, because I thought that people would think that I'm trolling. This is my honest opinion and I hope no one gets offended. First of all the gothic sounding keyboards in the first track just sound horrible. I mean the whole gothic feel they're trying to achieve just doesn't work. On top of that it just seems totally pointless. Then later we have the quieter sections and instrumental passages. But the problem is that none of them compliment the other. They all just seem pointless. The gothic keyboards return in the end, but still just pointless. It all just seems like a silly formula. You start a song with something, then do a different sounding section, then maybe something instrumental, then something else and back to where you started from. But it just doesn't work. To me it's only a formula nothing more. Then we have the samples. I think they were covered pretty well earlier in this thread. I mean what was the point of that car crash? Then we have LaBrie trying to sound badass. That just made me laugh. I wish he could just sing the way he did in the I&W to FII era. A Nightmare to Remember is a good example of him trying to sound really badass, but failing miserably. Portnoy's "growling" is just laughable. And that deep voice sample on the AA track is probably the worst sample I've heard in DT history. Another thing is the "emotional" solos. I think it was The Best of Times that had one of these. A few tracks had some solos that clearly tried being emotional, but they don't work at all. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's the bad lyrics, but the songs themselves don't sound emotional at all. When you add an emotional solo to that equation it just sounds silly. I seriously laughed at many points of this album. Oh and then Pornoy's tasteless double bass drumming. I mean what happened to him. I listened to 6:00 and wow it's like a different drummer. There's probably much more that I forgot, but all in all I'd probably give it 1 star. It's easily the worst album I've heard all year. And I really like everything DT did up to FII. Sorry if I offend anyone, but this is how I feel. I probably didn't use the best words possible, but I just find the whole album tasteless, pointless and laughably bad.

Dalezilla wrote: I wasn't going to post here, because I thought that people would think that I'm trolling. This is my honest opinion and I hope no one gets offended. First of all the gothic sounding keyboards in the first track just sound horrible. I mean the whole gothic feel they're trying to achieve just doesn't work. On top of that it just seems totally pointless. Then later we have the quieter sections and instrumental passages. But the problem is that none of them compliment the other. They all just seem pointless. The gothic keyboards return in the end, but still just pointless. It all just seems like a silly formula. You start a song with something, then do a different sounding section, then maybe something instrumental, then something else and back to where you started from. But it just doesn't work. To me it's only a formula nothing more. Then we have the samples. I think they were covered pretty well earlier in this thread. I mean what was the point of that car crash? Then we have LaBrie trying to sound badass. That just made me laugh. I wish he could just sing the way he did in the I&W to FII era. A Nightmare to Remember is a good example of him trying to sound really badass, but failing miserably. Portnoy's "growling" is just laughable. And that deep voice sample on the AA track is probably the worst sample I've heard in DT history. Another thing is the "emotional" solos. I think it was The Best of Times that had one of these. A few tracks had some solos that clearly tried being emotional, but they don't work at all. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's the bad lyrics, but the songs themselves don't sound emotional at all. When you add an emotional solo to that equation it just sounds silly. I seriously laughed at many points of this album. Oh and then Pornoy's tasteless double bass drumming. I mean what happened to him. I listened to 6:00 and wow it's like a different drummer. There's probably much more that I forgot, but all in all I'd probably give it 1 star. It's easily the worst album I've heard all year. And I really like everything DT did up to FII. Sorry if I offend anyone, but this is how I feel. I probably didn't use the best words possible, but I just find the whole album tasteless, pointless and laughably bad.

I made it seven minutes into "The Count of Tuscany" before giving up, it was just that bad. Your post confirms that I was right to ignore the rest of the album. And yeah, I still like I&W.

Dalezilla wrote: Then we have the samples. I think they were covered pretty well earlier in this thread. I mean what was the point of that car crash?

Keppa4v wrote: Dalezilla wrote: Then we have the samples. I think they were covered pretty well earlier in this thread. I mean what was the point of that car crash? The song is about a car crash. But well, yes it could do very well without that sample. Tony R wrote: How do you DT fans feel about the obvious Rush "homages" in the last two tracks? I can hear Hemispheres, La Villa Strangiato, Xanadu, Cygnus x-1, The Analog Kid, Red Barchetta and most obviously The Spirit Of Radio. It's obviously deliberate, especially on The Best of Times where I believe it is meant to fit the theme, and they have gone to great pains to capture the "Rush sound" from that era.... The only thing that very slightly bothers me is the Red Barchetta verses in The Best of Times. Now that I think of it there really is something very much like Spirit of Radio, but I hadn't made that connection myself and it doesn't bother me now that I know.

You didnt notice the Xanadu parts in Count of Tuscany?

Woah. Black Clouds is probably my third favorite Dream Theater album, the first being I&W and the second Awake. Every song is very good and they get better on every listen... The singles are also brilliant, especially the more "mainstreamish" Wither, which is a very beautiful song.... And then there's Rite of Passage, whose solo is just pure brilliance - the "bouncing" parts are just wonderful. (You know what I'm talking about) And the chorus is just awesome. A Nightmare to Remember is wonderful despite the slightly irrelevant semi-growling part and the maybe a little bit awkward lyrics (I haven't got over them, yet... they don't fit the song in my opinion). The song sounds a little bit too epic for so down-to-earth lyrics, even if the car crash has affected people.

A Shattered Fortress is maybe the worst (well, "least good") song on the album - too much recycling and such. The Best of Times is very good and I thought that if someone close to me had died recently and I would listen to The Best of Times thoughtfully I would probably cry or something. And then there's the Count of Tuscany. I haven't understood the lyrics very well yet (what the heck do they talk about? I laughed at some comment somewhere where the lyrics were very bluntly summarized...), but I guess they talk about something very serious and I read somewhere that it happened to Petrucci...

Anyways, an awesome album.

StyLaZyn wrote:   It's a real shame to continue to pay homage. Will these guys ever grow into their own musicians? If they want to pay homage, they need to simply make a tribute CD and be done with it but write actual original material for studio releases.