The Album That Killed Prog?

Radar Love wrote: And The There Were Three without a doubt. A collection of three minute pop songs.And woeful one's at that

darqdean wrote: Also, wasn't Susan Ballion and her band of Native Americans doing a 10 minute version of The Lords Prayer with more than a nod towards Can & Neu! not just a little bit progressive for a bunch of punks?

Indeed,she/they was/were. Join Hands,the second album,definately has a proggish feel to it.

Edited by Man Erg - July 19 2007 at 16:35

Sean Trane wrote: BaldFriede wrote: Well, Sean Trane, you definitely mistake Sonja Kristina's singing style. She is certainly not the chick that sings "beautifully", but neither is it her intention. Which is why I like her voice. I hate these chicks who try to sing "beautifully", that's why I am no fan of Renaissance, for example.   I'm not much of a beautiful female voice (ala Haslam >> in the genre I much preferred Jane Relf)  man either. I much prefer the folk rock female singers than all of those Gothic "godesses" or those Lucassen muses.     I love Janis Joplin, I love Madeleine Bell and my favorite Grace Slick plus countless other female belters, so why do I not like Sonja?   I simply think she sings badly. While staying in a normal range, she can give the illusion she's a good singer, but as soon as it gets tricky, she can't control some of her frequencies and it goes awry (curdles milk instantly)    And accessorily I don't like Babe Ruth's Janita Haan's singing as well >> maybe you'll see where I am getting at, with this analogy   BaldFriede wrote: As to "stealing from classical music": Come on, Sean, you can't be serious! Shall I list how many other groups did that, including (for example) Yes (just look at the REALLY awful "Cans and Brahms" on "Fragile".) ELP were of course the masters of that, but there is hardly a prog band without a nod towards classical composers, at least in the early 70s. The "Sheherazade" suite of Renaissance. The Nice! Procol Harum! Shall I go on?   I never said the opposite!   But The Nice, Procol and The Moody Blues did that in 67/8 (and CA did that in 72/3). And while I like those early albums, it doesn't mean I don't accept it for everyone.

You have your dates wrong, Sean Trane. Vivaldi is on their debut album, which is from 1969 (and not, as the database falsely says, from 1970). So please treat them fairly.

Reply to forum: What album made you realize progressive rock is dead?<p>

First, Progressive rock is not dead.  Progressive Rock is a musical enterprise that is constantly changing, sometimes for the better, others for the worse.  One of the main pillars that distinguish this form of rock is that it always endeavors to fuse different musical forms and styles, instrument arrangements, vocals, and sounds from everyday experience - both human and non-human activity – together.  Progressive rock is self-inventive and eclectic.  So if you understand what Progressive Rock is, then the question is pure non-sense.   There are still endless musical threads for musicians to follow.  The central bands that sprung up in the sixties and seventies left unfinished trails to for later generations to explore.<p>

 

Second, progressive rock is at a somewhat low right now. So what! It is human nature to seek to attach blame anywhere but upon itself, when it is deserved.  The teaming gut-following Masses are to blame for the low.  It’s simple economics, pay for good music when you find it and don’t when it’s bad.  A great example is the experiments that recording companies are financing with Progressive Heavy Metal.  Metal is brutal and clumsy in its attempts at expressing rebellion…the age-old emotion of every new generation.  There is always money be made here, and the wrecking crews of poor excuses for musicians mistake the actions of the naïve hoards with poor taste turning out their pockets as confirmation of  their delusion of possessing talent.  Progressive Metal is a still-born child for nearly all who tinker with it. A few exceptions are Robert Fripp and his collaborators.<p>

 

Finally, baring the exceptional, I’m willing to bet that new music listeners, in their own self satisfaction, presume that they have it all sorted out.  To quote out of context, musical attitudes tend to follow the dictum: “I like what I know and I know what I like”. Good musical taste comes from first listening with an open mind and articulating ones sorting process and revising that process over time; eventually, then,  following ones instincts can sometimes be a sensible approach.  I wouldn’t be surprised if Prog Metal fans use the opposite approach.  To the others, recognizing that Progressive rock is not static and bands and artists always come and go, and being a good listener, can reveal that what you might have passed off as not fitting a rigid mold and therefore not worthy of more time, might have been a progressive rock gem staring you right in the eye.<p>

Progressive Rock can only die if the audience kills it.

Well, we CURVED AIR fans are not going to be able to influence Sean after all this time. BaldFriede, I and others will be peeing against the wind on this one.

Yes, at times, Sonja can be a little pitchy, however, I saw her live with CA almost too many years back to recall [in 77 at Warwick University] and as a bit of a stickler for 'in tune ' vocals, I was far from offended. I was impressed with her power [not to mention her revealing costume].

A good test of any vocalist is in live and exposed performance imo. By exposed I mean with minimal backing and no help from effects - as jazz singers regularly perform . On the CA 'Masters From the Vault' DVD , which, I concede, is not all that great unles you are a fan, she handles the folkish ballad 'Melinda More or Less' where she accompanies herself on acoustic guitar extremely well- nice mood, feel and absolutely no pitch problems there albeit a little emotionless in delivery.

As an unabashed fan of 'Air Cut', on that album [ which I highly recommend ] she is successful in capturing many moods - hard rocking to soft and ethereal again, without pitch problems.

In saying that, the live versions of 'Propositions' I have heard do demonstrate what Sean is talking about. Harsh, strident and pitchy, but you can't dismiss her as a singer just for that. Many successful vocalists have limited ranges and write songs or have them written within that range. For instance, there are few who can cross over from alto to soprano or baritone to tenor without some limtations becoming evident.

As I understand it, Sonja did a successful stint in the demanding arena of high level music theatre after her rock days, where soloists are often 'exposed' in their singing roles. Now, she can't be that bad.... Really!!

That she 'crossed the line ' into music theatre is an apposite example or , if you like, symptom of what was happening in progressive music at the time . As I regularly say, musicians have to make a living too you know.

But to suggest all Curved Air albums should be on a list of albums that bear some responsibilty for killing prog , sir , I won't have it! ! !

[If sub- par singing is a test of this, what is Andy Tillison doing to prog with his band 'The Tangent'. Let's get Guy Manning on the job more before prog comes crashing down. { Sean , is that perverse or what....}]!

[P.S. - Bluetailfly - read the reviews for some guidance. The Second Album is nice, but the young Jobson influenced 'Air Cut' is outstanding in my view].

I've always loved Sonja Kritina's voice - I saw her play a solo gig in the early eighties and she had no problems keeping in tune.

If you don't know which one I picked, you haven't read my Love bech review. Instead of Tormato, I would have opted for Big Genereator for Yes, which I also had a fun time reviewing.

Not remotely as bad as Invisible Touch or We Can't Dance

Wow, "Love Beach" is leading the list......  I gotta get that album!  xD

bluetailfly wrote: It's interesting that this "Curved Air" discussion came up when it did, because I was one click away from ordering their first album, on the advice of someone who claimed they are an incredibly awesome prog band, especially live. Now it appears they have their rather strong-willed detractors. Oh well, I'm going to buy their CDs anyway

That's the spirit !   Always listen for yourself, even if an artist has severe detractors. This thread - and the whole site - is a perfect example. According to some, many great albums aren't worth owning (or appreciating). The opposite is true as well, i.e.; I don't care for Harmonium's 'Si On Avait..', but it is considered a classic and must hear.

... and ATTWT is a very, very good record. Even Abacab has some terrific moments.





Edited by Atavachron - July 20 2007 at 00:56