Double-bass drumming...

^ they're one of my favorite bands ... you can download their two albums for free from their website. 

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ they're one of my favorite bands ... you can download their two albums for free from their website.

we will probably do that. there were a few things I could criticize (keyboards a bit billowing at times, voice of singer a bit strained occasionally), but they are really minor, and I might even get used to them. certainly more along my avenue than what you usually present to me . from what I have heard I would give the music 4 stars.

and now let's all break into a paraphrase of the Who's "Tommy": "Extra! Extra! Prog-rock bonanza! BaldJean in miracle cure!"


Edited by BaldJean - March 29 2008 at 11:26

There is a certain trick in the way you kick the bass drum that can give you the effect of a double bass drum, although not for these minute-long thunders some drummers produce with it. But it is all I need to emphasize certain parts of the bass drum. And I would feel ashamed of myself if I had to use a double bass-drum for that. On the contrary; I am glad I can juxtapose the effect with playing the hi-hat at the same time. It is hard to describe that trick but easy to demonstrate.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: Here are two videos which might provide useful insights: 1. Dave Lombardo at a drum clinic, saying some interesting things about drumming in general and then playing Slayer's Angel of Death: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQxE0plAzo 2. The full song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBW_b-WJ2us

Definitely not my style of drumming. My style is a lot more relaxed. But it pretty much demonstrates what I always criticize about those bass drum staccatos: The notes blur into each other. It is like being in the alps during a thunderstorm; all those echoes keep the thunder constantly rolling. You don't hear the single thunder anymore. At first this may sound aggressive, but after a while it simply loses its effect; you don't hear anything anymore but a constant blur; you only realize the thunder when the thunderstorm suddenly stops.

One of my favourite double Bass Drum moments was from Jon Hiseman of Colloseum in his solo. What he does is a fast double bass drum roll whilst playing a slow single stroke roll on his snare. Sounds simple enough hey.........but then he simultaneously speeds up the snare roll whilst slowing down the bass drums, they meet at the same tempo in the middle until the bass drum roll is slow against the fast snare roll and then he takes it back again.

BaldFriede wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: Here are two videos which might provide useful insights: 1. Dave Lombardo at a drum clinic, saying some interesting things about drumming in general and then playing Slayer's Angel of Death: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpQxE0plAzo 2. The full song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBW_b-WJ2us Definitely not my style of drumming. My style is a lot more relaxed. But it pretty much demonstrates what I always criticize about those bass drum staccatos: The notes blur into each other. It is like being in the alps during a thunderstorm; all those echoes keep the thunder constantly rolling. You don't hear the single thunder anymore. At first this may sound aggressive, but after a while it simply loses its effect; you don't hear anything anymore but a constant blur; you only realize the thunder when the thunderstorm suddenly stops.

Well, I don't just hear a constant blur, I can easily make out the "notes" and I could write them down in standard notation. A thunderstorm is chaotic, whereas what Lombardo plays are precise rhythms, and at the same time not computer like but with subtle nuances (groove). It's also not monotonous ... there are many breaks, a lengthy half-time section and many rhythmic variations throughout.

BTW: Of course the track showcases a lot of what you would call "metal mannerisms" ... of course I won't argue that.

^ but the "kick" is very precise and doesn't blur. Of course the bass drum needs to be miked and set up differently for metal blastbeats than for more traditional sounds. Hence the need for gigantic drum kits like for example that of Mike Portnoy. 

^ it's not important at this speed. You could also argue that other instruments should not be played beyond a certain speed because the notes can't "ring out" properly ...

http://www.symphonyx.com/audio.html

Listen to the track "Evolution". You'll find that only the chorus uses the pattern which you describe, where the whole bar is filled with evenly distributed and accentuated bass drum notes. I'm sure you won't find any metal song (let alone prog metal) which solely consists of this monotonous pattern ... there's always an element of variation. And why shouldn't there be situations where the bass drum and/or other instruments play something monotonous while some other instruments have the focus?


Edited by MikeEnRegalia - March 29 2008 at 16:50

I think Jean hit the nail on the head when she posted that using double bass drum in many cases simply is the instrumental equivalent of a rapper saying "I am the meanest MF around". It is a widespread attitude among metal musicians, not only in prog metal and not only among drummers (other musicians have other ways of expressing this, of course, like shredding), and I think you know that pretty well, Mike. It is an attitude that existed even at the very beginning of rock already. And it is chiefly this attitude which I criticize.

Edited by BaldFriede - March 29 2008 at 17:15