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Artists considered prog on here but not elsewhere
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dr wu23 View Drop Down
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Too many to name....I don't consider most ,if not all, of the prog related artists to be prog rock and imho they are just rock bands. I don't care that they are here but I have never thought they were really 'progressive' per se. That includes some 'proto prog' bands.

BTW,,,one wonders how many times this same question will be asked on PA in different ways....?
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Catcher10 Catcher10 wrote:

Rush..........Tongue

Don't you mean the Beatles? Wink
We all know that already.....Approve
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Originally posted by TheLionOfPrague TheLionOfPrague wrote:


Post rock here features as a subgenre, but I don't think most people consider it so. I love Sigur Ros and GY!BE among others, but they're usually considered simply post rock. Not prog. Different is the case of, say, canterbury which is definitely a sub-genre or prog, or zehul too, or krautrock. So Caravan, Soft Machine, Magma, Neu, Can, Faust, etc. Most would agree they're prog bands. Post rock I think most people consider it a genre in its own right, in fact I was surprised when I saw it in the website first LOL. Same with the black metal/post metal stuff like Agalloch. I don't mind these bands being here, I just find it odd that these bands are not only in the website, but they're also listed as prog bands, while many suggestions of bands to be included not even as prog, but as prog-related are constantly denied. I mean bands like Boston or Dire Straits for instance. I think Smashing Pumpkins and Wire were suggested too more than once. It seems that sometimes they're very liberal in the definition of prog and sometimes they're very strict in what even considers "prog-related", NOT even prog.

When post rock came up, I already was a prog fan. Post rock was a big discovery for me, love much of it and still can't get enough. When I joined PA, I didn't expect to find post rock here, insofar you are right. However, I was delighted to learn it's here. The musical connections, particularly if you look at subgenres such as Kraut and psychedelic, are obvious, and for me it's a perfect match. Obviously that shouldn't stop anyone to consider it a genre on its own, no contradiction there (and by the way, there's much post rock that is not here, too). I like PA being a broad umbrella, and while I expressed surprise about the presence of NIN and Steely Dan, I have no complaints against them being here. My far bigger complaint is that Irmin Schmidt is not here, and given that PA is such a  broad umbrella otherwise, that's really quite outrageous. (Did I already mention that? LOL)
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To me the site crossed a line when Queen where included (regardless of them being put in the greyed out area or not) . Prog rock was clearly a mesh of jazz , rock and classical ideas developed by Keith Emerson , Bob Fripp and a bunch of other musicians around 1967-1970. After a time it became a cliche but people still like the sound and the style and look for it in modern bands. 
Progressive music is a whole different thing. The site has never decided whether its a homage to prog, a progressive music site or just a place to discuss a bunch of bands we like. I think its gone more to the latter as its expanded. I suppose I'm okay with that.
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

To me the site crossed a line when Queen where included (regardless of them being put in the greyed out area or not) . Prog rock was clearly a mesh of jazz , rock and classical ideas developed by Keith Emerson , Bob Fripp and a bunch of other musicians around 1967-1970. After a time it became a cliche but people still like the sound and the style and look for it in modern bands. 
Progressive music is a whole different thing. The site has never decided whether its a homage to prog, a progressive music site or just a place to discuss a bunch of bands we like. I think its gone more to the latter as its expanded. I suppose I'm okay with that.

There are few bands here, not even in prog-related that make me scratch my head, more than Queen. 
Like Rhapsody (of Fire) or Nightwish (and I like their early work) or My Dying Bride (doom metal, death-doom band). And i could add some more if I look into it some more. 
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

What are some bands or artists that you have noticed are considered to be some form of prog on here(for the purposes of this thread let's say anything other than post rock, fusion, psych and electronic) but are not typically considered prog on other sites such as all music, wikipedia etc. I have come across three in particular and they are:

1. Oingo Boingo
2. Tori Amos
3. Robert Plant

There's also Led Zeppelin, the Who and Black Sabbath and probably a few other classic kinds of bands but those are either proto prog or prog related so I won't count them. 

yeah, those three are pretty lame additions, even if I lightly supported two of them's respective inclusions (never even realized until last year OB had been added on PAAngryOuchDead). 

I had originally supported Amos to be included in Prog-Related, but I'm still amazed (and irked) that she was added in a full-blow prog subgenre. Originally my support was due to Amos' main influence Kate Bush being on PA, but this backfired totally because the master (Kate) has been overpassed by the pupil (Tori) as "proggier" (which is IMHO total CensoredbullcrapNuke). World upside down really WackoPig


I've no beef with Zep, Sab and Who being on here, though.Ying Yang


Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Really? I don't think I've ever seen any of them mentiond as prog except on PA. I think a long time ago I saw Oingo Boingo mentioned as prog by one guy but that's it. Now Kate Bush on the other hand...

Yeah, that's the scandal herePinch. Kate is a full-blown artistes with prog leanings whereas Tori is a brilliant piano-only singer-songwriter having learned much from Kate. This becomes clear enough when you see a live show from Amos. 

I would be much happier if Kate was full-blown prog genre and Tori as Prog-Related. Stern Smile
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

To me the site crossed a line when Queen where included (regardless of them being put in the greyed out area or not) . Prog rock was clearly a mesh of jazz , rock and classical ideas developed by Keith Emerson , Bob Fripp and a bunch of other musicians around 1967-1970. After a time it became a cliche but people still like the sound and the style and look for it in modern bands. 
Progressive music is a whole different thing. The site has never decided whether its a homage to prog, a progressive music site or just a place to discuss a bunch of bands we like. I think its gone more to the latter as its expanded. I suppose I'm okay with that.

There are few bands here, not even in prog-related that make me scratch my head, more than Queen. 
Like Rhapsody (of Fire) or Nightwish (and I like their early work) or My Dying Bride (doom metal, death-doom band). And i could add some more if I look into it some more. 

IIRC in those days, prog metal was left all over to Mike (Progfreak) and a few other prog metal lovers who got, shall we say, ambitious with their definition of what could be prog metal for THIS website. FWIW even metalarchives doesn't think Nightwish is prog metal.  At that time (2007-08), the metalheads I knew all regarded them as symphonic power metal and I don't think their music has changed so much from their late 90s-early 00s template that they would have suddenly gone full prog. A cursory listen to their most recent album gave no such indication at any rate.

Anyway, I don't have an ISSUE with them or any other bands that are already on here.  It would be a waste of time deleting them from the database now.  But that doesn't make them or other such dubious additions prog either.


Edited by rogerthat - June 09 2021 at 05:21
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I've always wondered if there will ever be a purge of artists added that don't stand the test of time?

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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I've always wondered if there will ever be a purge of artists added that don't stand the test of time?


Like any large database that has been constantly added to over a long period of time, there is probably a fair bit of clutter here that probably seemed like a good idea at the time to include, but now is hardly relevant to the history and development of prog. I'm in no way advocating a massive purge tho.

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Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I've always wondered if there will ever be a purge of artists added that don't stand the test of time?


Like any large database that has been constantly added to over a long period of time, there is probably a fair bit of clutter here that probably seemed like a good idea at the time to include, but now is hardly relevant to the history and development of prog. I'm in no way advocating a massive purge tho.

[See also: Rush]


Why not? There are many artists here that i love as artists but don't find them relevant for a prog site. Every artist you could ever dream of is on Rate Your Music but PA still  has many artists here that aren't there so if this is a niche site we don't really need to have some of the bands that don't pass modern scrutiny. I'd be for it. Sort of a like a constitutional convention for prog!

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When I first explored the PA-database (even before I registered) I was regularly surprised to find certain artists on here in one of sub-genres and thus to be considered "prog rock". To me it is clear that the PA database is not created and filled by music professionals; there are too many artists on here that the music industry would never consider prog rock. The crossover sub-genre is an exemple of where bands/artists are put in that the outside world would not consider prog. Fine.

This kind of PA prog-imperialism can become rather ridiculous. I give the example of a recent addition: Penguin Café (added to the post/math rock sub genre). Now, if someone can explain to me what is "rock" about this group, that would be nice. I very much like their music and consider for example their The Imperfect Sea album as a masterpiece, but there is nothing "rock" about it, so how could it be prog rock? And to put it in the post/math rock sub-genre is even more ridiculous. For me it is contemporary chamber music but not rock at all...

Now, do I care? No. As said, it is clear that the PA database is not a professional one. So be it. It remains a very rich resource that can lead to surprising discoveries (also thanks to these "anomalies"). But I do think that some kind of purge might give some more credibility to PA and what is considered prog. And not be too afraid to move some artists to the prog-related category (I'm thinking of Björk, Kate Bush, but wouldn't mind either to find the Penguin Café there (or the PCO) - although I would still think of it as quite a stretch...

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^You write an awful lot about a subject you don’t care about

All databases of this sort will have loads of artists one doesn’t agree with. That is the nature of such databases. Even jazz and metal sites of this sort veer into stuff you wouldn’t in a million years think of as being metal/jazz....but sometimes there are reasons beyond what you can hear in the music...and I am fine with that.
PA is a continuous battle between the folks that want the site to be way more focused on the pork of yore or indeed modern variants of the very same...and then there are the many folks who feel that PA is way too hard to get into and that we should open up to experimental pop, drone and whathaveyou. It’s ca 50/50.
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Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

^You write an awful lot about a subject you don’t care about

All databases of this sort will have loads of artists one doesn’t agree with. That is the nature of such databases. Even jazz and metal sites of this sort veer into stuff you wouldn’t in a million years think of as being metal/jazz....but sometimes there are reasons beyond what you can hear in the music...and I am fine with that.
PA is a continuous battle between the folks that want the site to be way more focused on the pork of yore or indeed modern variants of the very same...and then there are the many folks who feel that PA is way too hard to get into and that we should open up to experimental pop, drone and whathaveyou. It’s ca 50/50.
There is literally no solution to this matter over PA that doesn’t end up with someone’s panties in a twist.

I can do nothing but completely agree with the bolded part as a once active member of Metalarchives.  Yes, Metalarchives used to be super-exclusive about whom they admitted and were quite particular about keeping nu metal/metalcore out. Problem solved, right?  Wrong.  Because when you draw a thick line, you also mould the expectations of the database participants in that way.  So...you had people saying Faith No More was only on metalarchives because site owner Morrigan liked the band (does that argument sound familiar? LOLLOLLOL).  I mean, a PA frequenting metalhead would think calling Faith No More metal is totally non controversial but that wasn't the case.  

So...yeah, there's no solution.  Because the root of the problem lies in the fact that genre classification is subjective.  Even if it is not as subjective as one's likes and dislikes, it is still subjective that people are going to disagree.  And I think that is a small problem in a time when people don't always agree even on the basic facts. 
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

To me the site crossed a line when Queen where included (regardless of them being put in the greyed out area or not) . Prog rock was clearly a mesh of jazz , rock and classical ideas developed by Keith Emerson , Bob Fripp and a bunch of other musicians around 1967-1970. After a time it became a cliche but people still like the sound and the style and look for it in modern bands. 
Progressive music is a whole different thing. The site has never decided whether its a homage to prog, a progressive music site or just a place to discuss a bunch of bands we like. I think its gone more to the latter as its expanded. I suppose I'm okay with that.
Nicely summed up Richard. I agree, we've never been sure about the difference between Progressive Rock (aka "prog") and progressive music.
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Progishness Progishness wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I've always wondered if there will ever be a purge of artists added that don't stand the test of time?


Like any large database that has been constantly added to over a long period of time, there is probably a fair bit of clutter here that probably seemed like a good idea at the time to include, but now is hardly relevant to the history and development of prog. I'm in no way advocating a massive purge tho.

[See also: Rush]


Why not? There are many artists here that i love as artists but don't find them relevant for a prog site. Every artist you could ever dream of is on Rate Your Music but PA still  has many artists here that aren't there so if this is a niche site we don't really need to have some of the bands that don't pass modern scrutiny. I'd be for it. Sort of a like a constitutional convention for prog!

IF we were to do that, we'd have to do it behind the scenes and providing a list of obvious (and not-so obvious) candidates.

To the best of my knowledge, it's only been done once, because added without consulting anyone: it was some doom/death metal band with Latin (as in from Rome) lyrics 

HOWEVER, I understand that removing an entry once inside the DB is not only a time consuming affair but also tricky/dangerous.
And should not be handled lightly (touching the stability of the DB's structure).
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now I am curious, who are the obvious candidates, I want to see if I agree... Big smile
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I agree with Sean that it would be a mammoth task, possibly sending the 'database pruning team' round the twist... not to mention the endless arguments amongst the general PA membership.
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99 percent of the artists on here don't stand the test of time if we are referring to popularity. Tongue This site could be reduced to 20 bands or less. It could be the GeneyesFloyd archives. LOL

There are many bands on here that many people don't pay attention to anyway and I bet there are a few hundred with 3 or less ratings and probably at least 50 with 0 ratings. If anything should be purged it would be the artists with zero ratings. 

So I guess maybe I'm not sure what is meant by the stand the test of time comment. If we mean popularity  even in the prog world that would mean having a lot fewer artists on here than there currently are. It could also mean that what is considered prog at one point might not be considered prog in the future. That's possible. There's a lot of bands considered prog now that probably wouldn't have been considered prog 20 to 30 years ago (or more). 
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There are one or two sub-genres that I'd get rid of entirely if it were up to me, but it isn't so I won't name names.
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I don't like the idea of a purge. Some of the artists on the border with prog (or gray area if you prefer) have been interesting me. The addition of David Bowie in prog related made me want to explore his music more, whereas before I never had any interest. Thanks to PA, my journey into Bowie's discography has been a joy. 

I think doing a purge without knowing how the database is being used by visitors is misguided at best. On top of that would be endless arguments and who and how they would be removed. Bickering on that scale would make me leave the site.

Did we forget what the purpose of an "archive" is? If the gray area is removed to leave the obvious artists, then why bother calling it an archive anymore? Context of how the genre exists and interacts through the gray area seems important to me.
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