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Reviews discussion |
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erik neuteboom 
Prog Reviewer 
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
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 Posted: May 14 2007 at 12:45 |
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OK. thanks The T
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator 
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 13:47 |
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I don't understand why you'd delete your posts just because you are disagreed with.
Its still your opinion, and should be seen.
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Atkingani
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: October 21 2005 Location: Terra Brasilis Status: Offline Points: 12288 |
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 18:37 |
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I'd like to congratulate Erik and The T for the manner the "confusing name" issue was dealt.
Even knowing that South Americans can be dangerous people sometimes
 I may say that The T got important points to become a future something here in PA.  |
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Guigo
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
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Posted: May 14 2007 at 18:51 |
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His reviews are not really bad to use a typical British understatement Atkingani (thanks by the way
) ...
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The T
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: October 16 2006 Location: FL, USA Status: Offline Points: 17493 |
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Posted: May 15 2007 at 16:23 |
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I say thanks, too.
 Finally, some day it will happen! So it will read like this:
Atkingani - Forum Moderator
Easy Livin - Forum Moderator
The T - Future Something
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member 
Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
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Posted: May 15 2007 at 22:09 |
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It was taken as offensive, and i was not going to change my opinion anyway.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
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Posted: May 15 2007 at 22:40 |
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I see these reviews have been left standing. My problem is not the opinion, but rather the unimaginative way they were presented, i.e. if you find them so good, why is it that you can't say something original or truly meaningful about each of them rather than cut & paste & change a few names. P.S> I am a Rush fan, but not a fan of lazy diots. Take them out for God's sake. Otherwise you have to see that this could get easily out of hand, i.e. post 20 reviews of a group, same review with minimal changes as these 4 Rush albums. Hey, what a way to goose up a rating & get by the written review weighting scheme without taking too much of my time, eh. |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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philippe
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 14 2004 Location: noosphere Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 03:43 |
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It will be great one day to delete all ratings without reviews, a lot of albums are under evaluated with no arguments ...thanks to make it a priority!
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Certif1ed
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 08 2004 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 7559 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 03:49 |
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The important thing is not to stop questioning.
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 05:22 |
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What? Offensive? You don't have to change your opinion.
Sorry...I don't see where it was offensive.
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20436 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 07:21 |
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And identically some albums are over-evaluated with no arguments to back them up.
Which is why I never trust the ratings on the PA, even if in the long run, they are becoming a good reflection of the album quality within the band's discography. But certainly not in regards/comparison with other discographies of similar groups.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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erik neuteboom
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 27 2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 7659 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 08:12 |
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As I said earlier: half a year ago I published a review about William Gray (4 or 5 stars, I don't know at this moment), within one day the average rating got a blow with a ridiculous one star rating without a review, this makes no sense and gradually Prog Archives will loose its credibility
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 08:30 |
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I don't see any reason why ratings without reviews should be deleted.
I pretty much favor it above reviews actually. Certainly for a birdseye view of what an individual likes I have enough on 40 ratings of bands and albums that I know.
unfortunatly most people prefer to wright 40 reviews and leave the other 500 albums they know outside because they don't have the time or the need to write that review.
that's 460 albums that could have some meaningfull information added if only we were more openminded towards rating without reviewing.
of course a review is better, but for the site it would be better if we don't have all that many members with one or 10 reviews, that's not enough information to judge whether or not the reviewer is a trustworthy source of information and comparable to ones taste.
but i'm preaching to myself here, so why bother.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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philippe
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 14 2004 Location: noosphere Status: Offline Points: 3597 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 08:36 |
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yes, that's a shame, I hope that Admins will react because it's not the first time that we discuss about it. All these results concerning rating without review are biaised. It’s not a vote for or against, it should only be an evaluation with comments. |
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: March 23 2005 Location: Caerdydd Status: Offline Points: 32995 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 09:12 |
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Perhaps ratings without reviews should only aply to albums withless than, say, 20 reviews?
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 09:34 |
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The problem is writting a review is a lot of work, I'm not a very good writter, and i'm limited in my vocabulaire, so it takes me two hours to write a review, and than I'm still not sure whether it actually says what i want it to say.
The same apply's for many others not counting people with very limited english skills.
there are currently lots of members who have reviewed maybe 10 albums, taken into account that most start with their personal favourite bands, and their favourite albums from those bands, these members are in danger of being called fanboys just because they haven't displayed the full range of likes and dislikes they have.
the first 10 reviews I did were mostly 5 star albums (Arena, Pendragon and Marillion) if I recall correctly, does that make me a fanboy, I guess so, but there is a context, which can only be seen if you see everything or at least more of what i know and like and dislike, which is still largely unknown to many and can be seen yet.
That's what i like about DallasBrian, he just rated 1000 albums, and I can brows through his ratings and see what may be of interest to me, or what I should probably avoid, that's a world of information that I wouldn't get when just reading his reviews since i don't have the time to read 1000 reviews, same with Sean trane and Erik Neuteboom etc. i'm only interested in their ratings, initially that says enough for me. of course once determined which artist i want to check out reviews become extra helpfull, but a review on itself is worthless you'll need a context to understand where the reviewer comes from.
and for people with only 10 reviews I have no use for those since i either know these 10 albums, or i know none of the albums, indefferent of the quality of the written review I have no purpose for it, since if I know the bands and albums I already have an opinion about it, if I don't know the bands and albums I don't know how to interpret the reviewer.
To get to the Snow Dog remark.
It's not about the album information, it's important information on the reviewer, to be able to understand his ratings better, and to see if your taste match.
VVVVVV yeah you're right sorry  Edited by tuxon - May 16 2007 at 10:47 |
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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MikeEnRegalia
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 22 2005 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 21618 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 10:48 |
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I'm listening.  BTW: Here's an example of interesting things you can do with ratings: http://progtology.com/db/users/_auto_2050257.xhtml?path=charts  |
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 20436 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 10:49 |
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Actually more than a question of skill it is question of organization and will. If you told me three years ago, I'd have written almost 2000 reviews, I wouldn't have believed you. But practice makes much better (never pretend you're perfect in a review, because nothing could be further from the truth, since it is all objective, even though I do try to be as subjective as I can).
My way of doing is listening to the album (that you know already fairly well) two or three times in a row, if necessary ( but now I find once while writing the review can be enough) while sitting in front of your open word document (and the remote control nest to the mouse) and just write whatever goes through your mind. On the other side of the mouse and laptop, I have some reference books to make sure that I give infos as correct as I can.
At first you'll have only small sentences scattered here and there, but it shouldn't be too hard to link them and even form sentences from two or three bits or ideas. It's almost like a puzzle. Let your finger type out what the music tells you.
If you work directly on the Site's review box, this will simply not work!!! Writing reviews live is nearly impossible (on top of it, when I tried it the first year, I lost a bunch of text by accidently cliking on the box frame, let alone the loss of connections). Just use Word than copy/paste the review once it's ready.
Most reviews don't last me more than one hour nowadays, and I wrote my Zep and Doors reviews while listening to other music in two nights, mostly, just because those albums I know almost by heart.
The more you write reviews, the more you'll know ahead of time what you'll want to say about the album, even if you haven't really thought about it beforehand.
Of course I get no distractions (my weeknights are spent mostly alone, listening to music, no phone, no TV, no kids or girlfriends and friends to disturb you). Doing this on WE nights is out of question of course.
Gerald, from your writing in posts, I think your English is quite competent enough to write good reviews.
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As for DB's lists, they tell something about his tastes, but I can't figure out how he finds which is #18 and which is #19 and what happens when #20 , he likes it better than #15.....
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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tuxon
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 21 2004 Location: plugged-in Status: Offline Points: 5502 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 11:48 |
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Thanks,
I can write a decent review, but it takes me too long to get it right, which is not a problem since I still like doing it, but I've thrown away some 200 reviews and started over from scratch because i couldn't nail it, and ultimatly throwing it away, still not a problem for me since i know what i like, but those albums are now unreviewed and unrated by me, while a rating of these albums could help putting my other reviews in the right perspective for other users. or simple guide members to other albums i like (which is of interest if my likes are compatible with that members taste)
as for DB's ratings it would be helpfull if we could sort his ratings (and yours) according to subgenre, that way you'll see his and your ratings make sense.
(making sense doesn't mean you have to agree with the ratings)anyway, i think I'll start a new thread on rating without reviewing, and maybe one on reviewing itself aswell since i think that can be usefull for many of us. Maybe these posts should be relocated in reveiws discussion since this really isn't the right thread for it
 I think I should start it on how to improve this website, since that's my intention with this 3 year lasting crusade in favour of ratings without reviews
and maybe it can shed new light on the perceived problem of fanboyism.
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I'm always almost unlucky _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Id5ZcnjXSZaSMFMC Id5LM2q2jfqz3YxT
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator Joined: April 30 2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 3596 |
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Posted: May 16 2007 at 12:09 |
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As long as you give Klaatu's first 2 albums 4 or 5 stars, I would say, in advance, that I think you write "spot on" reviews. But seriously, Sean's take on reviewing is pretty good. Unless you know the album by heart, it's not a bad idea to have it playing while you review. Especially if you happen to have a rather large collection, it can be hard to say that you aren't missing anything when reviewing it 3 months after you last heard it. Which is why I haven't reviewed anything so far. I put the CD in, sit down, then notice that the album is still growing on me - HEY ! that's a great song, what's the name again ???  |
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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tuxon wrote: