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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 12727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 07:37
Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:


People of PA -- this is a music forum! Keep it that way.
Yeah well, you are currently posting a comment in the Topics not related to music department on PA. A section where I rarely participate, so rarely do I notice discussions getting out of hand. Yep, it really is that easy. The few times when I do notice, it's really no different from the rest of the internet. I don't mind. Aggression, weird takes or whatever make me think differently about some active members here, but so what? PA's forum section is already dying and...
Originally posted by wiz_d_kidd wiz_d_kidd wrote:

I think PA should have a zero tolerance policy and ban (at least temporarily) anyone who starts a political thread, or hijacks an otherwise music-related thread to inject their venom -- whether it's politics, conspiracy theories, COVID misinformation, etc.
...is probably another nail in the coffin. Your phrasing make introducing some kind of political aspect sound like more of an offence than it needs to be. Politics can have it's natural place in a discussion about music. Like... in the Political Prog thread (duh)

-the only arguments against that I sympathize with are the admins/moderators working here for free...
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5807 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 14:11
The main problem is not the presence of political discussion here but the tendency for PA forum members to get upset when the little prog rock comfort tub stops being their personal echo chamber. It's very easy to see in the case of political threads but it's everywhere on this forum. Like, when suddenly someone expresses an unpopular opinion, eg. "I don't like Klaus Schulze" or "I think late 1970's till 1980's prog was better than early 1970's prog"... the same kind of toxic melee flourishes.

Edited by Hrychu - July 24 2024 at 14:12
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65753 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 14:21
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

  If you don't want to discuss politics...ignore the thread.

And again, the issue is not those who don't want to discuss politics and therefore should ignore threads, the issue is those who do choose to discuss and not to ignore.   The "Just ignore it" tenet is increasingly tiring, irrelevant, ignorant, and unrealistic.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 12727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 14:39
Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

The main problem is not the presence of political discussion here but the tendency for PA forum members to get upset when the little prog rock comfort tub stops being their personal echo chamber. It's very easy to see in the case of political threads but it's everywhere on this forum. Like, when suddenly someone expresses an unpopular opinion, eg. "I don't like Klaus Schulze" or "I think late 1970's till 1980's prog was better than early 1970's prog"... the same kind of toxic melee flourishes.
Haha really? The toxic melee starts flourishing simply beacuse someone states that they don't like Klaus Schulze? It takes two to tango you know. Maybe work with how you interact with people first, and perhaps you can fix your main problem singlehandedly. i know I'm far from perfect myself, but I don't really have any problems to adress either.

-anyway this is about the political discussions specifically, because that's what has been shut down and closed
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 12727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 14:47
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

  If you don't want to discuss politics...ignore the thread.

And again, the issue is not those who don't want to discuss politics and therefore should ignore threads, the issue is those who do choose to discuss and not to ignore.   The "Just ignore it" tenet is increasingly tiring, irrelevant, ignorant, and unrealistic.

I think staying away from political discussions if it makes you uncomfortable or whatever, is good advice and not unrealistic at all. Everything isn't ideal for everyone.
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Easy Money View Drop Down
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Points: 10714 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 15:06
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

  If you don't want to discuss politics...ignore the thread.

And again, the issue is not those who don't want to discuss politics and therefore should ignore threads, the issue is those who do choose to discuss and not to ignore.   The "Just ignore it" tenet is increasingly tiring, irrelevant, ignorant, and unrealistic.

Actually, if the few people who want this really wanted to have a discussion, they could easily do that by private messenger or email. No, what these few really want is to proselytize and use this site as their soapbox for their personal propaganda.
Generally those who want to do this are those who have never helped build the site into something popular, instead, they want others to do the work of building the site and then they come here with their soapbox and start proselytizing.
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Hrychu View Drop Down
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Points: 5807 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 15:49
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Haha really? The toxic melee starts flourishing simply beacuse someone states that they don't like Klaus Schulze?
I was partially exaggerating. Maybe it wasn't the best example. I just wanted to bring up something "controversial". xD But to tell you the truth, the battle truly begins when someone else fights back.
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65753 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 16:17
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

 If you don't want to discuss politics...ignore the thread.
And again, the issue is not those who don't want to discuss politics and therefore should ignore threads, the issue is those who do choose to discuss and not to ignore.   The "Just ignore it" tenet is increasingly tiring, irrelevant, ignorant, and unrealistic.
Actually, if the few people who want this really wanted to have a discussion, they could easily do that by private messenger or email. No, what these few really want is to proselytize and use this site as their soapbox for their personal propaganda.
Generally those who want to do this are those who have never helped build the site into something popular, instead, they want others to do the work of building the site and then they come here with their soapbox and start proselytizing.

True enough, but the 'Don't post,ignore' thing is getting quite old and discussing by PM seems most unlikely.   If someone gets on a soapbox the soapbox is gonna get kicked out from under them. But that's just me I guess.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65753 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 16:19
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

  If you don't want to discuss politics...ignore the thread.

And again, the issue is not those who don't want to discuss politics and therefore should ignore threads, the issue is those who do choose to discuss and not to ignore.   The "Just ignore it" tenet is increasingly tiring, irrelevant, ignorant, and unrealistic.
I think staying away from political discussions if it makes you uncomfortable or whatever, is good advice and not unrealistic at all. Everything isn't ideal for everyone.


But the people who want to ignore do ignore, and those who don't want to ignore do not. It's a red herring, diversionary, and unhelpful.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 12727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 21:53
^We disagree. Staying away from things, people, interactions... that aren't good for you - or makes you feel uncomfortable, is a learning experience. One has to start somewhere and taking omphaloskepsis (or mine) advice into consideration is a beginning. It's not nessecarely a red herring or unhelpful. I'm sure it can appear that way. But I know starting to exersise your "ingoring skills" can be liberating and rewarding, as I speak from personal experience. I'll leave it at that.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 12727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 22:18
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

  If you don't want to discuss politics...ignore the thread.

And again, the issue is not those who don't want to discuss politics and therefore should ignore threads, the issue is those who do choose to discuss and not to ignore.   The "Just ignore it" tenet is increasingly tiring, irrelevant, ignorant, and unrealistic.

Actually, if the few people who want this really wanted to have a discussion, they could easily do that by private messenger or email. No, what these few really want is to proselytize and use this site as their soapbox for their personal propaganda.
Generally those who want to do this are those who have never helped build the site into something popular, instead, they want others to do the work of building the site and then they come here with their soapbox and start proselytizing.
I don't agree with any of this. Discussing on discussion-boards means that "anyone" can potentially join in on the discussion. That's a huge difference from pm's or emails, and a vital part of the attraction. Regardless of what is being discussed.
 
-I never helped building the site into something popular or anything like that myself. It hasn't even occured to me that I should. I've just started to use this forums for posting my nonsense because other people worked on building it for me first. I'm focusing on music, but that's the only difference between me and the members who take their soapbox to Topics not related to music. Don't you want people to come visit and make use of what you've built? Isn't that the general idea? 

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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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Points: 15393 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 22:20
I just dropped in to ignore!




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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Points: 65753 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 23:09
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^We disagree. Staying away from things, people, interactions... that aren't good for you - or makes you feel uncomfortable, is a learning experience. One has to start somewhere and taking omphaloskepsis (or mine) advice into consideration is a beginning. It's not nessecarely a red herring or unhelpful. I'm sure it can appear that way. But I know starting to exersise your "ingoring skills" can be liberating and rewarding, as I speak from personal experience. I'll leave it at that.

None of this "isn't good for me or makes me feel uncomfortable", that's the point.   I'm sure ompha & maybe you would prefer to not have those who disagree with your assertions simply not post here, but that contradicts your entire position--   You say anyone should be able to post in any thread and then turn around and suggest they should avoid doing that very thing. Get your act together.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 12727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2024 at 23:59
Originally posted by Atavachron Atavachron wrote:

I'm sure ompha & maybe you would prefer to not have those who disagree with your assertions simply not post here
Quite the opposite. I think our only online argument has been about free speech, and I think everything except for any kind of threats (which there are laws against anyway - so don't break the law) should be allowed. I just largely stay away from political discussions myself, as it doesn't do me much good. I think people who can't take the heat should stay away - rather complain to the admins.
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Points: 65753 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2024 at 00:00
^ Okay, I get that.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Hugh Manatee View Drop Down
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Points: 1587 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2024 at 01:52
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

The main problem is not the presence of political discussion here but the tendency for PA forum members to get upset when the little prog rock comfort tub stops being their personal echo chamber. It's very easy to see in the case of political threads but it's everywhere on this forum. Like, when suddenly someone expresses an unpopular opinion, eg. "I don't like Klaus Schulze" or "I think late 1970's till 1980's prog was better than early 1970's prog"... the same kind of toxic melee flourishes.
Haha really? The toxic melee starts flourishing simply beacuse someone states that they don't like Klaus Schulze? It takes two to tango you know. Maybe work with how you interact with people first, and perhaps you can fix your main problem singlehandedly. i know I'm far from perfect myself, but I don't really have any problems to adress either.

-anyway this is about the political discussions specifically, because that's what has been shut down and closed

I think this is rather ironic considering the very first response to this thread.

It might well take two to tango, and it may well be about fixing the way interactions are handled by individuals, however I well recall posting an opinion that was looked on unfavourably by a certain poster and directly after posting my OPINION this particular poster found it necessary to follow me around and post negative comments after every post I made subsequently, and none of it was about politics.



I really can't be bothered defending every opinion I post and it is one of the main reasons why I have chosen to largely disengage from this forum.




Edited by Hugh Manatee - July 25 2024 at 02:05
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 12727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2024 at 02:04
Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:

The main problem is not the presence of political discussion here but the tendency for PA forum members to get upset when the little prog rock comfort tub stops being their personal echo chamber. It's very easy to see in the case of political threads but it's everywhere on this forum. Like, when suddenly someone expresses an unpopular opinion, eg. "I don't like Klaus Schulze" or "I think late 1970's till 1980's prog was better than early 1970's prog"... the same kind of toxic melee flourishes.
Haha really? The toxic melee starts flourishing simply beacuse someone states that they don't like Klaus Schulze? It takes two to tango you know. Maybe work with how you interact with people first, and perhaps you can fix your main problem singlehandedly. i know I'm far from perfect myself, but I don't really have any problems to adress either.

-anyway this is about the political discussions specifically, because that's what has been shut down and closed

I think this is rather ironic considering the very first response to this thread.

It might well take two to tango, and it may well be about fixing the way interactions are handled by individuals, however I well recall posting an opinion that was looked on unfavourably by a certain poster and directly after posting my OPINION this particular poster found it necessary to follow me around and post negative comments after every post I made subsequently, and none of it was about politics.
I thought the first response to this thread was meant to be taken as a joke. Like a genuine use of irony. I certainly thought it was funny. 
-Anyway, I'm adressing a specific member and his claim, not this thread or the forum as a whole. Hrychu doesn't go out of his way to be polite or non-confrontational, so the resposes he often get, is to be expected. I can write that I have yet to enjoy a second of Neo-Prog or Dream Theater without getting myself into trouble, but if I state that "you, your favorite bands and your tastes in music suck", I'm asking for it.
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Points: 1587 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2024 at 02:22
^
I agree that there are certain people who come across as confrontational and so I choose to just ignore those people (and avoid "getting into trouble", whatever that means) because I don't consider myself a confrontational person. All this talk about not being able to criticise a persons favorite band or favorite anything else rather limits the range of topics somewhat and while I agree that could be likely to cause some upset, as long as it doesn't get personal then that is fine.

Saying "I don't like Dream Theatre" is different to saying "You're an idiot for liking Dream Theatre". Being hounded around the forum for professing a dislike for Dream Theatre is different again.





Edited by Hugh Manatee - July 25 2024 at 02:25
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Points: 12727 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2024 at 02:26
^Yep. I agree.
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Points: 18334 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 25 2024 at 08:07
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

 
...
 If you don't want to discuss politics...ignore the thread.
...

Hi,

I would actually like to go one step further than that ... 

How about being able to turn the thread invisible, and not show up on your browser/login?

I imagine I would only hide 3 or 4 threads, that are of no interest whatsoever ... but it would take the temptation of saying something or other that would flame someone ... 
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