listeners of progressive rock are evil !

maani wrote: All: As a Christian minister, I find the man's views naive, unsound, and without merit - to say nothing of totally without basis in Scripture.  In this regard, I am  concerned that he is doing more harm than good vis-a-vis Christianity - which (just so there is no confusion) does not "condemn" any form of music.  Yes, we try to be careful where blatant satanic "worship" etc. is concerned, and I would steer people away from that.  However, this man clearly has little or no true understanding of Scripture, or how to apply it. As a minister, I can assure you that prog-rock is not "evil," and that, unless one is incredibly impressionable to begin with, neither the music, lyrics, nor album covers of any prog-rock band is going to cause good Christians (or even good atheists) to "turn to the devil." Peace.

Cheers.

All:

Blacksword said, "...all too often it is religion or extremists interpretation of it that leads to conflict and killing and a basic betrayal of that religion."  This is an exceptionally correct and important statement.   Whether it is the "Christian Right" or radical Islamic fundamentalists, it is "extremist" interpretations that led to the Crusades, the Inquisition, 9/11, etc.  After all, do you really think Jesus would have supported the Crusades?  Or that Mohammed would have supported the actions of 9/11?  They would have been mortified to see what was being done in their names.

It has been said that "religion is about laws, regulations and behavior; faith is about a relationship with God" (and, if you are Christian, with Christ).  One of the main problems with "religion" (as represented by the mainstream Catholic and Protestant churches) is that they focus far too much on the former, often at the expense of the latter.  (This is also true in much of the Islamic world, where fundamentalist imams focus on laws and behavior rather than faith.) As a minister, I can tell you that someone with "faith" is more likely to understand, accept and abide by whatever "laws, regulations and behavior" are expected of them, while a person who "follows the rules" but has no faith will have an enormously hard time building faith.

The focus on "laws and behavior" at the expense of "faith" is also why it is so easy for "extremist interpretations" to take hold among "the masses"; if more "religious" people (whether Jews, Christians or Muslims) had real "faith" - and actually read and knew what their own Scriptures said, rather than blindly following the narrow interpretations of "extremist" leaders - then extremist leaders would not be nearly as successful as they are.

James Lee states that, "The US was founded by criminals and zealots so objectionable to the rest of the world that they were banished here."  Unless his tongue is planted firmly in his cheek, this is revisionist history of the most dangerous type.  Our country was founded by people who rejected the "divine right of kings" to rule over them, yet not be subject to their own laws.  Although those people were (for the most part) what we would today call "conservative Christians," this was in fact a radical departure from orthodoxy.  Hardly "criminals and zealots," these people were (as the cliche goes) fighting for religious (and other) freedom.  Contrary to being "objectionable to the rest of the world," much of the free world at that time refused to support the British in the war against the "colonies."  Indeed, the French famously sided with the colonies against the British.  As for being "banished," this is the opposite of what actually occurred.

However, James adds that "Religion is not the problem.  It's Puritanism.  Witch-burning is alive and well and assuming insidious socially acceptable forms."  To this I can only say, "how (sadly) true."  As noted in a previous post, the so-called "Christian Right" takes Scripture out of context to support narrow, unloving, unforgiving, and ultimately un-Christian views.  They are, in many ways, the Christian equivalent of the radical fundamental extremists in Islam.  They do not represent most Christians; they simply dominate the "media voice" of Christianity because of the power they wield.

As for Islam (and my Islamic friends here can back me up), the Qu'ran is not a book of violence, as many pundits and right-wingers tried to assert after 9/11.  In fact, about 75%-80% of the text deals with love, peace, brotherhood, community, forgiveness - essentially the same values as "true" Christianity.  Yes, there are passages of violence, and references to "death to infidels."  However, not only are these only occasional, but there is actually as much (if not more) violence and "death to infidels" (i.e., non-Jews) talk and action in the Old Testament than there is in the Qu'ran.  Yet no one would call the Old Testament a "book of violence."

Similarly, the Arabic word "jihad" as used in the Qu'ran actually has three meanings.  Its primary meaning - i.e., about 80% of the time - is "internal struggle"; i.e., similar to the internal spiritual/worldly struggle that Jews and Christians undergo.  Its secondary meaning is "holy war."  Yet even here, that meaning is not the broad one espoused by fundamentalist imams against all infidels (non-Muslims), especially the Jews; rather, the term is actually more "narrowly" defined.  The tertiary meaning of "jihad" is somewhat "obscure" to "the West," and has no bearing on this particular discussion.

Joren says: "For me, God = religion.  Am I wrong?"

I think I addressed that at the top.  Religion is about laws, regulations and behavior; faith is about a relationship with God.  If there is an equation here, it is "God=love."  (As a minister I would go even further and remind my fellow Christians that leading a "Christ-like" life is not only about love - which, of course, is primary - but also about forgiveness, compassion, humility, patience, peace, charity, selflessness, and service.)

As some of you have inferred, "Christianity" has often been its own worst enemy.  Part of my calling as a minister is to remind Christians (and others) what Christanity was originally meant to be: i.e., the "true essence" of Jesus' life and ministry - not what Christianity became.  Most Christians forget that not only was Jesus a Jew, but He did not come to start a "new religion"; He came to teach the Jews how to be better Jews, i.e., to expose the Temple Leaders and Sanhedrin as the corrupt, self-serving leaders they had become, and to lead the Jews back to the truths in their own Scripture - to teach the "spirit" of the law ("faith") rather than the "letter" of the law ("religion").

Sorry for the treatise.  However, I thought it might be informative to some of you who may be forming opinions based on the words and/or actions of a few, or of a non-representative group.  In this regard, it has not been my intention to offend anyone, and if anything said herein is offensive, you have my most sincere apology.

Peace.

Vibrationbaby wrote: Blacksword wrote: Well, I'm bad to the bone. I smell of brimstone and crack. I eat bats and play my Yes records backwords everyday while praying to the desolate one. I believe Mike Rutherford is the Antichrist. You've only got to look at him Mind you, I dont have long hair so I'm not all bad.. I've played a few Black Sabbath records backwards but never any Yes records I'm going to have to give it a try. I'm going to start with Tales From Topographic Oceans.Maybe It will cauuse me to commit suicide! Bob Fripp is the real antichrist.

LOL!

If heavy metal was such a satanic influence, why didn't the numbers of Satanists boom in the 80s? There was a noticeable increase, but nowhere near as much as Scientology, which (depending on whose numbers you believe) has more than tripled its base since 1980!

Hmm, maybe we should be analyzing Billy Sheehan's body of work instead of the more demonic metal musicians...

Pollution
All around
Sometimes up
And sometimes down
But always around.
Pollution, are you coming to my town?
Or am I coming to yours?
We're on different buses, pollution
But we're both using petrol.

Joren, thanks so much... that is one of the funniest sites I've been to in a long time!

Everyone must check out the Captain and Tennile and Mary Poppins samples.

ROFL

Possessed wrote: Joren wrote: What a jerk! Idiots like him have existed since the Dark Ages when they used to burn people at the stake.

And who was it that did the burning? Not the likes of me that's for sure.

Guys, this man is completely "gone..."

Howewer, it's real, I spent 90% of my budget for prog discs!!!!!

- yeah, I'm a liberal in Bertrand Russell's way but I think that Marx when he said that "Religion is opium for the Masses" said the truth; the results are these and Osama and witchburning and more and more and more...

- Also if you listen to groups like Dr.Z, Comus, Coven, Jacula, Antonius Rex satanic reflections are more or less clear anyway...remember that Indian Summer's first song is "God is the Dog"... but I think they were not Satanists..

- Anybody knows black metal? Maybe this guy confused the genres or maybe in Marion those discs are not for sale... Re-Exhuming McCarthy?

 "Space is the place" 

emdiar wrote: "Never try to reason the prejudice out of a man. It wasn't reasoned in to him and cannot be reasoned out of him." -Sydney Smith.

Great quote! There's a name I haven't heard since grad school