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Tubes 
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 28 2013
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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 Posted: April 01 2013 at 23:52 |
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@Dayvenkirq I'm supporting your proposition that, "having two-three decent moments on an album.." is not exactly redemption for it's numerous faults. I provided an example in the form of a hypothetical question.
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smartpatrol
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 15 2012
Location: My Bedroom
Status: Offline
Points: 14169
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 00:06 |
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Free Hand is probably my 6th favorite GG album. 4.5 stars imo
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3242
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 01:03 |
 Tubes wrote:
@Dayvenkirq I'm supporting your proposition that, "having two-three decent moments on an album.." is not exactly redemption for it's numerous faults. I provided an example in the form of a hypothetical question. |
Being able to write well and articulate an opinion is totally different in my opinion to understanding a complex piece of work like Free Hand, so I suggest you re-listen to the album and rewrite your review. You remind me of certain professional film critics who come from a journalistic background and write film reviews without the slightest understanding of movie making apart from digesting a couple of text books on films.
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lucas
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 01:06 |
Tubes wrote:
@The Mystical and many others: I'll conclude with thanks for all your support. Reviewers shouldn't be discouraged from writing genuine and (hopefully) helpful entries on this website, or anywhere else for that matter. This should be every critic's intention, and provide the measure of his success. Take some advice from another poor prog-related song: "Be yourself, give your free will a chance - you've got to want to succeed." |
Welcome tubes, thank you for your objective review of FH. Unlike many forum members here, I also have a problem with GG (just like with many "major" modern prog acts like Opeth and Porcupine Tree).
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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lucas
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 06 2004
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 8138
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 01:19 |
iluvmarillion wrote:
Tubes wrote:
@Dayvenkirq I'm supporting your proposition that, "having two-three decent moments on an album.." is not exactly redemption for it's numerous faults. I provided an example in the form of a hypothetical question. |
Being able to write well and articulate an opinion is totally different in my opinion to understanding a complex piece of work like Free Hand, so I suggest you re-listen to the album and rewrite your review. You remind me of certain professional film critics who come from a journalistic background and write film reviews without the slightest understanding of movie making apart from digesting a couple of text books on films. |
You remind me of a dictator who censors his citizens
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 01:22 |
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Ok, let's cool the Efreeti.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 02 2013 at 01:23
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Tubes
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 28 2013
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 01:24 |
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@lucas It was no trouble to write. I'm glad you appreciate my 'audacity'. I should also like to encourage you to give, to paraphrase the old expression, a 'discouraging word' or at least a hundred about some GG albums. I understand why some folks who don't find the band particularly listenable avoid reviewing their releases, ie. they try to be positive people, and avert themselves from spreading negativity. But these guys need to receive a more diverse spectrum of commentary than they do.
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 01:31 |
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^ But why? What use is this spectrum? Besides, I'm pretty sure that there are some people on this website that are aware of their inability to appreciate certain things that others see as true merits (and maybe even enjoy the presence of those merits). If I don't understand something about the music on a particular album, that means I'm not going to write a review on it (Hint: The Raven).
Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 02 2013 at 01:33
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Tubes
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 28 2013
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 01:35 |
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@iluvmarillion I've listened to Free Hand in full over two dozen times, and several tracks about four dozen times. At one point I enjoyed some moments, but as I listened again my fondness waned because... this album has no replay value. Free Hand is replete with music that lacks that standard in prog, and all real music, of enduring quality. Whereas I've listened to classic Yes songs like Heart of the Sunrise, Long Distance Runaround, and Yours is No Disgrace thousands of times, with just a handful of periods of having heard them enough for the time being.
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octopus-4
Special Collaborator
RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams
Joined: October 31 2006
Location: Italy
Status: Offline
Points: 14117
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 02:18 |
Hi all, first of all this is a poll which takes its question from a review appeared on the home page. This is not a trial versus the review or the reviewer. The qusetion is "Do you agree or not?".
If anybody thinks that the review is improper there's a forum section "report reviews and ratings" which is the place where this kind of thing are discussed.
I disagree with owner of a lonely heart being "poor and related" but I'm sure that there's a lot of people even in this forum who agrees totally with Tubes. I may start a thread asking about that song.
What I think was the big mistake is how the question was put which was presuming the disagreement. The site rules are clear: if it's a proper review and is not offensive it's ok.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Dayvenkirq
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 25 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Status: Offline
Points: 10970
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 02:46 |
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^ Well, I think the OP would probably agree with you. This is just a chance to discuss certain details of the review. 1) Offense and impropriety and 2) disagreement are two different stories.
Edited by Dayvenkirq - April 02 2013 at 03:08
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 03:05 |
The only 1* album Gentle Giant ever made was 'Giant For A Day'. If some folks here think that GFAD is better than Freehand, then 
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Tubes
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 28 2013
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 89
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 03:18 |
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@Tom Ozric, Giant for a Day deserves negative stars.
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 03:27 |
Guys, I expected the worst when I played `Giant For A Day' for the first time, but found it all rather pleasant if totally forgettable and undemanding. There's the odd catchy moment on it here and there!
Then again, I'm always fascinated when a complex prog band experiments with poppy arrangements, sometimes it works well, other times it's a train wreck!
Clearly many feel `Giant For A Day' is the latter! 
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 03:51 |
I think it's refreshing to have a one star review of a record that's very popular among prog fans. As long as it's written with consideration and after careful examination, that's fine with me. We don't want group think on the site, do we? And then find out that the emperor has no clothes after all. Also, we're talking about a non-collaborator/ prog reviewer review here. Personally I like "Free Hand" BTW.
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kit-kat
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 58
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 04:09 |
I have not heard Free Hand yet so I can't comment on the album, but I don't think there's anything wrong with the review, there are enough "this is one of the best Gentle Giant albums, absolute masterpiece" type of reviews anyway and he's entitled to share his opinion as long as it's not offensive (and I don't think it is). I've also given low ratings to very popular, acclaimed albums and if I wrote a review on any Mars Volta album, that would probably look much, much worse... 
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Snow Dog
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 23 2005
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 32995
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 04:13 |
Tubes wrote:
@Snow Dog, that's fine, but you'll not receive my respect in return for the 'favor'. By the way, you might feel more inclined to restrain your enthusiasm for certain albums, if you would take care of what I'll guess is an unfortunate cocaine problem, SNOW Dog. I can be funny when I want. |
Believe me, I do not require or need your respect. Infact with your comment you made here I have nothing but contempt for you and everything you say or write.
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Tom Ozric
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2005
Location: Olympus Mons
Status: Offline
Points: 15921
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 04:22 |
No No No, a little more humanity, please.................
If folks know their Rush, we have By Tor - so why can't we have Snow Dog ??
'Three Friends' is Giant's finest hour for me  |
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Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: October 12 2011
Location: Melb, Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 7951
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 04:28 |
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Tom, two nights ago I noticed my CD of `Acquring The Taste' and thought `Hmmmm, barely ever listened to that one....', and now several istens later it's like discovering it for the first time!
`Three Friends' is probably the best album for a Giant newbie to get in to....Probably the easiest to get your head around! I think I prefer `Free Hand', `Octopus' and `Acquiring The Taste' to `Friends', but honestly, all damn good! :)
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iluvmarillion
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 09 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 3242
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Posted: April 02 2013 at 04:37 |
Tubes wrote:
@iluvmarillion I've listened to Free Hand in full over two dozen times, and several tracks about four dozen times. At one point I enjoyed some moments, but as I listened again my fondness waned because... this album has no replay value. Free Hand is replete with music that lacks that standard in prog, and all real music, of enduring quality. Whereas I've listened to classic Yes songs like Heart of the Sunrise, Long Distance Runaround, and Yours is No Disgrace thousands of times, with just a handful of periods of having heard them enough for the time being. |
Hope that I haven't been misinterpreted because I'm against most forms of censorship and there was nothing in your review that was offensive in any way, or anything that was reportable. I just happen to strongly disagree with you that Free Hand is a one star album. You either like the album, which I view as a piece of art (like a painting, literature, poem, film etc.) or dislike it which is fair enough, as everyone has a different opinion. But to use some objective analysis such as lacking enough time signature changes, to justify criticizing the album, is in my opinion a mistake as you could lay that claim against multiple artists such as Mike Oldfield and Phillip Glass. Maybe just stick to reviewing VGG whom you happen to like and leave the reviews of Gentle Giant to people who love GG (myself included). I just wish you you could see Free Hand as the highly original work I believe it to be, rather than the colourless score you believe it to be.
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Free Hand - a 1* album
