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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: December 21 2010 at 21:20 |
Clearly the socio-economic, societal, and cultural climate of the pre-1989 era precludes any music made in the centuries of human existence before 1989 from being good. Only a moron would attempt to argue this point.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Padraic
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 16 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Status: Offline
Points: 31169
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Posted: December 21 2010 at 21:22 |
$ART_FORM that was created [before/after] $DATE is obviously terrible
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irrelevant
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: March 07 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 13382
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Posted: December 22 2010 at 03:03 |
"Just for Fun"
Edited by irrelevant - December 22 2010 at 03:04
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: December 22 2010 at 03:51 |
I think all of 1989 music on PA should be put in the section proto-progressive.
Or, no, all music before 1969 should become proto-proto-progressive, no?
Or maybe Procol Harum was proto-proto-proto-progressive, Gabriel era Genesis proto-proto-progressive, Fish era Marillion proto-progressive and 1989 was where it all really began with Dream Theater's When Dream And Day Unite and Marillion's Season's End
I think neo will start in 2015
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:46 |
Don't you mean "Post Neo"?
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Moogtron III
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 26 2005
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 10616
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 13:56 |
CPicard wrote:
Don't you mean "Post Neo"? |
No, that will only start in 2025
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17708
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 16:33 |
presdoug wrote:
No music, as long as it is listened to and appreciated, is dead, regardless of what any "fashion", or "in vogue" period would dictate heck, i listen to and appreciate music recordings from before 1900, let alone 1989, and they work wonders for me the worst thing that anybody can do is to dictate what has value and what does not All music is not crap, it is all good -to whomever likes it
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Shhhhh!!!
That is way too musically literate to be posted here and everyone will think you are being stubborn like Mosh!
Actually there is a good point to that ... as an "experiential" art, it dies the moment after it passes, and it is your mind that recreates something of that moment that is not necessarily a part of it.
Recordings and such, allow for us to "relive" that moment and feeling, and even that is hardly the original feeling from that one specific moment in time ... and thus, when it changes so much, eventually most of us will get bored with it.
I live for those moments, and the only music that stands up in my ears and mind is the music that ... opens up that incredible array of images and thoughts and everything else you can think of ... and the day it came from, has absolutely nothing to do with it at all ... not one iota.
I do think that Walter's comment has a lot more to do with the commercial crap than it does the music itself. It has a tendency to make the music appear to look better when so few people around you have the patience or the ability to even sit through 5 minutes of what you and I can listen to.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24338
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 16:53 |
Moogtron III wrote:
CPicard wrote:
Don't you mean "Post Neo"? |
No, that will only start in 2025
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This timing seems right to me, but the name Post Neo will only be used in France and Québec, and maybe in some other French-speaking territories which may become acquainted with prog in the meantime.
Edited by someone_else - December 23 2010 at 16:55
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 17:01 |
im began a King Crimson marathon of all the studio albums, (particularly for the 70s output, we'll see what happens after Red ). I'm up to In The Wake of Poseidon and all i can say is... "I DISAGREE"
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8649
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 17:26 |
moshkito wrote:
presdoug wrote:
No music, as long as it is listened to and appreciated, is dead, regardless of what any "fashion", or "in vogue" period would dictate heck, i listen to and appreciate music recordings from before 1900, let alone 1989, and they work wonders for me the worst thing that anybody can do is to dictate what has value and what does not All music is not crap, it is all good -to whomever likes it
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Shhhhh!!!
That is way too musically literate to be posted here and everyone will think you are being stubborn like Mosh!
Actually there is a good point to that ... as an "experiential" art, it dies the moment after it passes, and it is your mind that recreates something of that moment that is not necessarily a part of it.
Recordings and such, allow for us to "relive" that moment and feeling, and even that is hardly the original feeling from that one specific moment in time ... and thus, when it changes so much, eventually most of us will get bored with it.
I live for those moments, and the only music that stands up in my ears and mind is the music that ... opens up that incredible array of images and thoughts and everything else you can think of ... and the day it came from, has absolutely nothing to do with it at all ... not one iota.
I do think that Walter's comment has a lot more to do with the commercial crap than it does the music itself. It has a tendency to make the music appear to look better when so few people around you have the patience or the ability to even sit through 5 minutes of what you and I can listen to.
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Hi, Mosh, I like and relate to your concept of "reliving" a moment and feeling with a recording-man, it is like true time travel! In some ways, for myself, the further back in time, the greater the thrill! But , like you say, the feeling does change in a way over time-i guess where we may differ is that the date of a recording does have something to do with it, for me. Not in a sort of "classification" way, but as a sort of historical study, you might say (part of my background is historical research, archaeology, museum work), so dates mean something,but not in a pretentious, "show me" kind of way-my next project is to find the recordings from the pianist Hoffmann that were made literally days from Edison's cylinder machine invention (1888) Now, talk about a blast from the past!
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: December 23 2010 at 17:58 |
someone_else wrote:
Moogtron III wrote:
CPicard wrote:
Don't you mean "Post Neo"? |
No, that will only start in 2025
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This timing seems right to me, but the name Post Neo will only be used in France and Québec, and maybe in some other French-speaking territories which may become acquainted with prog in the meantime.
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I'm pretty sure all the Latin people will use "Post Neo" (Spain, Portugal, Brasil, Mejico, etc.). It makes more sense in these linguas.
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24338
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 06:14 |
^You're right, I guess...
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CPicard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 03 2008
Location: Là, sui monti.
Status: Offline
Points: 10841
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 09:50 |
Anyway, couldn't we consider that any composer born before 1989 is to be rejected?
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 11:14 |
CPicard wrote:
Anyway, couldn't we consider that any composer born before 1889 is to be rejected?
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FTFY
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 17708
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 12:08 |
CPicard wrote:
I'm pretty sure all the Latin people will use "Post Neo" (Spain, Portugal, Brasil, Mejico, etc.). It makes more sense in these linguas.
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The analytical study of the arts is more valuable and important in those areas (and languages) than it is in English ... in both America and England, too much is centered on the commercial side of things (how imperialistic of them, hey???) and to appreciate and study the arts and make sure they are recognized, is not important ... and the result is ... you get a board like this that tries to make it better, but "fans" tend to trash any literary or intelligent discussion.
My own father was a well known name in Portuguese Literature ... and since his death, to give you an idea, between my mom and many others almost twice as much as my dad had published in his own lifetime has been done since 1979 ... and mom is still going strong ... !!! that says something for the studies of the language and the arts ... which is not being done with a lot of this music. And when I try, and do, it gets criticized as not important or conjecture ... what the heck are all those studies about?
And this has been something that I really would love to see this board be able to handle better ... but I am not sure it can happen until the leadership sets their mind and attention to it ... or add people that can think in those literary terms ... which we do not have enough of. But if the literary and educational side of it is not there, it won't happen. While I can appreciate a Snow Dog and Walter Digs Tunes just fine, in the end, folks that reply the way they do, is not going to help the "analysis" ... but it will help proliferate the post counts! There is a small side to that ana;ysis, but then, not everyone thinks that academic studies are important. I just think that some are out of line and counter-productive to the process and improvement of the art and its place in time ... but I am not sure those people care, of think about that ... they are kids having fun, right? ... just like you and I?
The terminology is not as important as the work itself ... but simply a way to explain some of the trends in it ... and yes, it might become termed that in the future ... but "post neo" will eventually lose its tracking, since every new form of any art is almost always "neo-post" ... which means the term is not flexible or capable of describing the art correctly. Compare that to "romantic era" in the arts ... which is about 75 years long and is well represented in the major arts ... and all of a sudden a lot of the terms used in the progressive area are really bad, and not descriptive of the work at all ... just it's sound ... and the "art" needs to be bigger than just its sound.
Edited by moshkito - December 24 2010 at 12:15
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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clarke2001
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 14 2006
Location: Croatia
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 19:05 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
IMO the most important revolutionary moments in the history of modern pop music are: 1) 1955, birth of rock'n'roll 2) 1965, Bob Dylan goes electric, classic rock can come 3) 1977, punk lives a very short life but it gives us alternative rock, which is still with us today.
This leaves out all forms of metal and electronic music, but IMO they've had an organic evolution, they didn't go against what was before. Their history has "landmark" moments rather than "revolutionary" ones.
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Interesting. I would say : 1955 rock 'n' roll; 1969 post Sgt. Pepper/In The Court improved multi-channel recordings; 1983-86 Yamaha DX7 and the appearance of the digital sound; 1992 Nirvana's Nevermind bring back the electric guitar and alternative rock to the fore.
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 20:09 |
presdoug wrote:
No music, as long as it is listened to and appreciated, is dead, regardless of what any "fashion", or "in vogue" period would dictate heck, i listen to and appreciate music recordings from before 1900, let alone 1989, and they work wonders for me the worst thing that anybody can do is to dictate what has value and what does not All music is not crap, it is all good -to whomever likes it
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......You just had to go an make this all serious? Er, please tell me you didn't think this thread was serious.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8649
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 20:50 |
I do not mean to "make" anything more serious than it is, not really my intention, but when someone starts off by saying that music pre-89 is dead and has no value-man,that gets me going in a serious way,you bet! I guess my own perspective on music appreciation is serious,but i don't mean to make it that way for anybody else that doesn't feel comfortable with that-what i am trying to say is that this topic should be as serious as an individual person feels it should, and some will be more intent and serious about it than others i do not mean to "dictate seriousness", is what i am trying to say
Edited by presdoug - December 24 2010 at 20:55
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JJLehto
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 34550
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 20:52 |
presdoug wrote:
I do not mean to "make" anything more serious than it is, not really my intention, but when someone starts off by saying that music pre-89 is dead and has no value-man,that gets me going in a serious way,you bet! I guess my own perspective on music appreciation is serious,but i don't mean to make it that way for anybody else that doesn't feel comfortable with that-what i am trying to say is that this topic should be as serious as an individual person feels it should, and some will be more intent and serious about it than others i do not mean to "dictate seriousness", is what i am trying to say
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But, the whole pre-89 music is dead thing was a blatant joke..... Whatevs. CLASSICAL MUSIC OR NOTHING
Edited by JJLehto - December 24 2010 at 20:53
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8649
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Posted: December 24 2010 at 21:00 |
JJLehto wrote:
presdoug wrote:
I do not mean to "make" anything more serious than it is, not really my intention, but when someone starts off by saying that music pre-89 is dead and has no value-man,that gets me going in a serious way,you bet! I guess my own perspective on music appreciation is serious,but i don't mean to make it that way for anybody else that doesn't feel comfortable with that-what i am trying to say is that this topic should be as serious as an individual person feels it should, and some will be more intent and serious about it than others i do not mean to "dictate seriousness", is what i am trying to say
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But, the whole pre-89 music is dead thing was a blatant joke.....
Whatevs.
CLASSICAL MUSIC OR NOTHING
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I understand the concept of "kidding around is kidding around", anyway, no hard feelings on this, and am sorry if i came across a bit heavy sounding
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