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darkshade 
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
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Points: 10964
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 Posted: October 04 2009 at 17:27 |
 The Quiet One wrote:
darkshade wrote:
ToT is fine. In fact at least 4 songs on there are some of DT's best. But i understand where people are coming from if they arent big on metal.
But Octavarium as one of their worst? there's only one track that's throwaway and it's "I Walk Beside You". Some dont like "The Answer Lies Within" but i think it's a beautiful song. It contrasts the opening heavy hitter "The Root of All Evil" very well. The album has great atmosphere and some ambience, something you only find on SDOIT disc 1. Not to mention it contains DT's best epic in the title track.
If "Forsaken" and "Phrophets of War" were taken out of SC, it'd be one of their best, and would still be over an hour long!  I can stand Forsaken sometimes though...
New album is perfect. Best 2000s album for them IMO which is good cause this decade is kind of coming to a close.....
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You know my thoughts about Octavarium very well if I'm not mistaken, and that is that Octavarium is plain un-original.
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for the most part i agree. I remember around the time it was released, i think Portnoy had made a comment in an interview about how they 'wear our influences on our sleeves" and it's true. The album clearly shows U2, Muse, and Linkin Park influences, and with the title track it's a "pick a classic prog band" influences. But there is some creativity going on, what with TROAE; expanding on the 12 Step Suite, Panic Attack being one of their best songs, same with Sacraficed Sons (both songs i have a hard time hearing the influences) and the great arrangment of Octavarium. Sure you can hear Floyd, Genesis, Yes, Crimson, ELP, etc... but the way it's put together and the lyrics (which reference prog bands too, so it seems very intentional) make up for it. That's kind of why i love Score so much. everything leads up to the title track (i used to think if DT broke up after Octavarium, at least they went out on a good note with that song.
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darkshade
Collaborator
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 17:29 |
The T wrote:
6 Degrees of Inner Turbulence's first disc is the closest DT has come to atrocious level... but the second disc is fantastic so in general I'll have to say Train of Though, though is still growing with me...
Systematic Chaos, on the other hand, started great but each time I like it less.... it's one of the weakest |
haha i had the same thing with SC. Then i didnt listen to it or the band for almost 2 years. Now i think it's an awesome album and never gets old.
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 17:36 |
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Their debut is very good, just the production quality is laughable. Falling Into Infinity is their worst IMO.
-Jeff
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 17:38 |
darkshade wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
darkshade wrote:
ToT is fine. In fact at least 4 songs on there are some of DT's best. But i understand where people are coming from if they arent big on metal.
But Octavarium as one of their worst? there's only one track that's throwaway and it's "I Walk Beside You". Some dont like "The Answer Lies Within" but i think it's a beautiful song. It contrasts the opening heavy hitter "The Root of All Evil" very well. The album has great atmosphere and some ambience, something you only find on SDOIT disc 1. Not to mention it contains DT's best epic in the title track.
If "Forsaken" and "Phrophets of War" were taken out of SC, it'd be one of their best, and would still be over an hour long! I can stand Forsaken sometimes though...
New album is perfect. Best 2000s album for them IMO which is good cause this decade is kind of coming to a close.....
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You know my thoughts about Octavarium very well if I'm not mistaken, and that is that Octavarium is plain un-original.
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for the most part i agree. I remember around the time it was released, i think Portnoy had made a comment in an interview about how they 'wear our influences on our sleeves" and it's true. The album clearly shows U2, Muse, and Linkin Park influences, and with the title track it's a "pick a classic prog band" influences. But there is some creativity going on, what with TROAE; expanding on the 12 Step Suite, Panic Attack being one of their best songs, same with Sacraficed Sons (both songs i have a hard time hearing the influences) and the great arrangment of Octavarium. Sure you can hear Floyd, Genesis, Yes, Crimson, ELP, etc... but the way it's put together and the lyrics (which reference prog bands too, so it seems very intentional) make up for it.
That's kind of why i love Score so much. everything leads up to the title track (i used to think if DT broke up after Octavarium, at least they went out on a good note with that song.
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The Root Of All Evil has a great riff, and was probably the first pure metal song I ever enjoyed, but now I find it pretty repetitive even if the strength of the riff still is there. And if I'm not mistaken, the riff is taken from the previous AA song on Train of Thought.. Sacrificed Sons is indeed the most original song in there and that's why it's my favorite. However it's not out-of-this-world compared to those long songs featured in Images & Words or others. And I understand what you mean about the composition from the title track, pretty much true I got to say. Still, even if how it is constructed is original what fills the structure is, like you said "pick a classic prog band" influences. Like I said in my review, I do enjoy listening to Octavarium because it's well played and barely find a flaw from the musicians, but I really can't say this is Dream Theater playing.
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 17:49 |
J-Man wrote:
Their debut is very good, just the production quality is laughable. Falling Into Infinity is their worst IMO.
-Jeff
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 Falling Into Infinity > Octavarium and Scenes attached TAKE THAT YOU FOOL!
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 17:58 |
The Quiet One wrote:
darkshade wrote:
The Quiet One wrote:
darkshade wrote:
ToT is fine. In fact at least 4 songs on there are some of DT's best. But i understand where people are coming from if they arent big on metal.
But Octavarium as one of their worst? there's only one track that's throwaway and it's "I Walk Beside You". Some dont like "The Answer Lies Within" but i think it's a beautiful song. It contrasts the opening heavy hitter "The Root of All Evil" very well. The album has great atmosphere and some ambience, something you only find on SDOIT disc 1. Not to mention it contains DT's best epic in the title track.
If "Forsaken" and "Phrophets of War" were taken out of SC, it'd be one of their best, and would still be over an hour long! I can stand Forsaken sometimes though...
New album is perfect. Best 2000s album for them IMO which is good cause this decade is kind of coming to a close.....
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You know my thoughts about Octavarium very well if I'm not mistaken, and that is that Octavarium is plain un-original.
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for the most part i agree. I remember around the time it was released, i think Portnoy had made a comment in an interview about how they 'wear our influences on our sleeves" and it's true. The album clearly shows U2, Muse, and Linkin Park influences, and with the title track it's a "pick a classic prog band" influences. But there is some creativity going on, what with TROAE; expanding on the 12 Step Suite, Panic Attack being one of their best songs, same with Sacraficed Sons (both songs i have a hard time hearing the influences) and the great arrangment of Octavarium. Sure you can hear Floyd, Genesis, Yes, Crimson, ELP, etc... but the way it's put together and the lyrics (which reference prog bands too, so it seems very intentional) make up for it.
That's kind of why i love Score so much. everything leads up to the title track (i used to think if DT broke up after Octavarium, at least they went out on a good note with that song.
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The Root Of All Evil has a great riff, and was probably the first pure metal song I ever enjoyed, but now I find it pretty repetitive even if the strength of the riff still is there. And if I'm not mistaken, the riff is taken from the previous AA song on Train of Thought..
Sacrificed Sons is indeed the most original song in there and that's why it's my favorite. However it's not out-of-this-world compared to those long songs featured in Images & Words or others.
And I understand what you mean about the composition from the title track, pretty much true I got to say. Still, even if how it is constructed is original what fills the structure is, like you said "pick a classic prog band" influences.
Like I said in my review, I do enjoy listening to Octavarium because it's well played and barely find a flaw from the musicians, but I really can't say this is Dream Theater playing.
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what riff in TROAE are you talking about? the first main riff after the intro? (that intro is from This Dying Soul) i dont think that one is in the previous one, but they do play one of the main motifs from This Dying Soul in the middle of the song. but thats the point of the suite, to take riffs and melodies from previous songs and expand on them, The Shattered Fortress being the ultimate one. i think we're in agreement with everything else. i think if the band learned from their mistakes with that album, they could have went on to make a masterpiece, but they decided to change their sound again. Im telling you, they could make a highly superior symphonic prog album
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:00 |
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btw what i love about the 12 Step Suite is Octavarium is referenced musically in it at least twice, which makes the whole full circle concept even more intriguing
Edited by darkshade - October 04 2009 at 18:01
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:00 |
^something like Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence, you mean?
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topofsm
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 17 2008
Location: Arizona, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1698
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:01 |
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I voted Scenes from a Memory. At times I've wanted to record an overdub of my voice on the album commenting on every single stupid thing I've found on it, sarcastically pointing out everything from the cheesy lyrics to pointless meter changes just for fun, though obviously few people would appreciate it and/or get the jokes.
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:02 |
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:03 |
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darkshade
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:03 |
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o wait, yes. i know what you mean.
yea and The Count of Tuscany proves that too (though not lyrically...)
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darkshade
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:04 |
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:05 |
darkshade wrote:
o wait, yes. i know what you mean.
yea and The Count of Tuscany proves that too (though not lyrically...)
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I didn't like The Count of Tuscany 
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darkshade
Collaborator
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Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:10 |
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:15 |
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:18 |
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:20 |
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J-Man
Prog Reviewer
Joined: August 07 2008
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Status: Offline
Points: 7826
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:23 |
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The Quiet One
Prog Reviewer
Joined: January 16 2008
Location: Argentina
Status: Offline
Points: 15745
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Posted: October 04 2009 at 18:24 |
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Which is the worst Dream Theater album ?
