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Windhawk
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11401
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:04 |
Aye, the mountain was a hairless one - but (supposedly) lots of nudity on that mountain in the specific setting Mussorgsky chose. Not of the kind that guys would be too keen to witness though ;-)
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com
My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10618
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:06 |
A section on the various roots of prog-rock, from concert hall music to jazz as well as seminal pre-proggers like The Shadows, Les Baxter or Sun Ra would be nice. Seems like there were some British avant-improv groups that had an influence on early out there improvisations by acid rock bands, but I can't remember their names.
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:11 |
Windhawk wrote:
Aye, the mountain was a hairless one - but (supposedly) lots of nudity on that mountain in the specific setting Mussorgsky chose. Not of the kind that guys would be too keen to witness though ;-)
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I've never heard of such nudity.
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debrewguy
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 30 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 3596
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:13 |
Could we say that Classical influenced certain prog genres instead of prog itself ? jazz fusion come to mind as one that would be hard to associate with classical music.
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"Here I am talking to some of the smartest people in the world and I didn't even notice,” Lieutenant Columbo, episode The Bye-Bye Sky-High I.Q. Murder Case.
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Henry Plainview
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 26 2008
Location: Declined
Status: Offline
Points: 16715
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:36 |
cacho wrote:
^lol! Are you really human? It seems you're a "Revolutionary Bot", if that really exists. You try to say everything opposite side from what everyone tells you. |
And you people are just lapping it up.
I fully support that, but I don't want to put effort into making it happen. Which is what internet suggestions are all about! I would also add a list of prominent prog covering classical music (especially in the cases where it might not be as obvious as Pictures At An Exhibition).
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if you own a sodastream i hate you
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 17:48 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
cacho wrote:
^lol! Are you really human? It seems you're a "Revolutionary Bot", if that really exists. You try to say everything opposite side from what everyone tells you. |
And you people are just lapping it up.
I fully support that, but I don't want to put effort into making it happen. Which is what internet suggestions are all about! I would also add a list of prominent prog covering classical music (especially in the cases where it might not be as obvious as Pictures At An Exhibition). |
"Bouree" by Tull? Although that one is quite obvious if you know your classical even a little bit.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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Rocktopus
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 02 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 4202
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:04 |
kibble_alex wrote:
Henry Plainview wrote:
I fully support that, but I don't want to put effort into making it happen. Which is what internet suggestions are all about! I would also add a list of prominent prog covering classical music (especially in the cases where it might not be as obvious as Pictures At An Exhibition). |
"Bouree" by Tull? Although that one is quite obvious if you know your classical even a little bit.
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Bela Bartok's influence on Art Zoyd, Univers Zero, Henry Cow... virtually all RIO/Avant/Chamber Prog is well known, but maybe a little less obvious.
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Over land and under ashes
In the sunlight, see - it flashes
Find a fly and eat his eye
But don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
Don't believe in me
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:21 |
Windhawk wrote:
Slaver - I am somewhat insulted in you mentioning Hall of the Mountain King as a work of Mussorgsky. I do hope that one came out wrong....if not you better read up a bit on classical music mate ;-)
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I understand that. Since no one's mentioned it so far, but Hall of the Mountain King is Grieg's, a contemporary of one of my personal favorite decomposing composers, Debussy. But Peer Gynt Suite No. 1's Morning had been embedded in my head since a young child and I didn't even make the connection with the composer until a history professor played it for a class in college. Of course I had been familiar with Hall of the Mountain King from Wakeman doing a few bars from the piece on his Journey To The Center Of The Earth album.
Edited by Slartibartfast - December 08 2008 at 18:22
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65268
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 18:33 |
but all classical, Romantic, Heroic, Baroque, and Avant classical influenced Prog, didn't it? Both Keith Emerson and Robert Fripp (to a lesser degree) were classically trained - Emerson in particular thoroughly versed in all the important composers, including 20th Century - and this is what allowed them to create progressive rock (same for the RIO bands)., distinguishing them from other so-called progressive artists as the Beatles who merely utilized a classical passage now and then or got George Martin to arrange something or play the keys.
Edited by Atavachron - December 08 2008 at 18:34
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Windhawk
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 28 2006
Location: Norway
Status: Offline
Points: 11401
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 20:40 |
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Websites I work with:
http://www.progressor.net http://www.houseofprog.com
My profile on Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/haukevind/
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19535
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Posted: December 08 2008 at 22:00 |
slaver wrote:
Mozart is not Prog!
Neither Bach,, Beethoven or even Stravinsky, mainly because Prog means Progressive ROCK, and as I guess you know....There's no Rock in Classical music..
Iván
A quote from my recent Stratovarius thread on which there are a few references to classical music not being prog to which I disagree whole heartedly. |
Do you even know the difference between being Prog and being influential?
I can say it 100 times Mozart is not Prog, but I never said Classical didn't influenced Prog, have you read the Symphonic Prog definition?
In this specific case the main characteristic is the influence of Classical music
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I said this in the symphonic definition and also believe it today, so please if you are going to quote me, do it in the correct context.
Iván
Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - December 08 2008 at 22:03
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Ricochet
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: February 27 2005
Location: Nauru
Status: Offline
Points: 46301
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Posted: December 09 2008 at 01:19 |
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: December 09 2008 at 12:05 |
Atavachron wrote:
but all classical, Romantic, Heroic, Baroque, and Avant classical influenced Prog, didn't it? Both Keith Emerson and Robert Fripp (to a lesser degree) were classically trained - Emerson in particular thoroughly versed in all the important composers, including 20th Century - and this is what allowed them to create progressive rock (same for the RIO bands)., distinguishing them from other so-called progressive artists as the Beatles who merely utilized a classical passage now and then or got George Martin to arrange something or play the keys.
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I think different eras of classical music influenced different genres of prog. Most of prog metal is influenced by Baroque to my ears, prog folk has a fair bit of a Renaissance influence (era, not band), symphonic prog i think probably carries most of its influence from the classical and baroque period, RIO from the modernist and post-romantic periods... It goes on really. That's my perception anyway.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: December 09 2008 at 12:07 |
Also adding to that, I agree that classical music has been a direct influence on the musicians as well. I know for a fact that Hugh Banton, Kerry Minnear and Jordan Rudess have been classically trained (don't like JR's style, but he's a good player nonetheless with very classical technique).
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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jimidom
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2007
Location: Houston, TX USA
Status: Offline
Points: 570
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Posted: December 10 2008 at 09:41 |
kibble_alex wrote:
Also adding to that, I agree that classical music has been a direct influence on the musicians as well. I know for a fact that Hugh Banton, Kerry Minnear and Jordan Rudess have been classically trained (don't like JR's style, but he's a good player nonetheless with very classical technique). |
Classically-trained musicians, who wanted to rock but who also wanted to hang on to their recital-worthy aesthetic while showing off their chops, could do so thanks to prog. They could even ditch their tails for glittery robes in the process.
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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Alberto Muñoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: December 10 2008 at 10:53 |
Ricochet wrote:
Windhawk wrote:
Slaver - I am somewhat insulted in you mentioning Hall of the Mountain King as a work of Mussorgsky. I do hope that one came out wrong....if not you better read up a bit on classical music mate ;-) |
Yeah...Mussorgski focused on a different mountain.
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Edited by Alberto Muñoz - December 10 2008 at 10:55
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: December 10 2008 at 12:21 |
jimidom wrote:
kibble_alex wrote:
Also adding to that, I agree that classical music has been a direct influence on the musicians as well. I know for a fact that Hugh Banton, Kerry Minnear and Jordan Rudess have been classically trained (don't like JR's style, but he's a good player nonetheless with very classical technique). |
Classically-trained musicians, who wanted to rock but who also wanted to hang on to their recital-worthy aesthetic while showing off their chops, could do so thanks to prog. They could even ditch their tails for glittery robes in the process. |
You wouldn't be talking about Lord Rick would you?
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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jimidom
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 02 2007
Location: Houston, TX USA
Status: Offline
Points: 570
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Posted: December 11 2008 at 09:03 |
Yes! The one and only!
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"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - HST
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DavetheSlave
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 23 2007
Location: South Africa
Status: Offline
Points: 492
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Posted: December 11 2008 at 09:15 |
You guys are very strange - without the classics we would have no rock, prog rock, jazz, blues, or anything else - we may have had sacrificial tribe type drumming!!!!! No one can deny that!!!!!!!!!!
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Vompatti
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: October 22 2005
Location: elsewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 67407
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Posted: December 11 2008 at 09:18 |
^ And without the "sacrificial tribe type drumming" we wouldn't have had the classics.
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