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salmacis 
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 Posted: December 23 2006 at 12:39 |
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I will say, though I don't mind 'The Divine Wings...' as such, I did find Symphony X in particular to be very cheesy indeed. Perhaps more so than any other prog metal band because they've got that huge 'power metal' sound to contend with also, which I personally dislike. Again, I think this is a band that probably harms people's perception of the genre but yet probably fare better in terms of criticism because I don't think they are anywhere near as hyped as DT are. Yet like 'Images and Words', I didn't hear much that was prog about 'The Odyssey'...didn't keep that one for long.
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Visitor13
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 12:40 |
 MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ good point! It's all a matter of perspective ... to some punk fans any non-punk music may seem cheesy.
IMO those prog metal albums that mainly deal with fantasy - dungeons, dragons, etc - may be called "objectively cheesy", but even then there are some fans who would disagree.
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Yep. I personally find it hard to come up with many non-cheesy prog artists. Off the top of my head I can only think of Allan Holdsworth. Even highly accomplished bands like King Crimson, Gentle Giant and VdGG border on cheesiness IMO.
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MajesterX
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 14:49 |
MikeEnRegalia wrote:
^ good point! It's all a matter of perspective ... to some punk fans any non-punk music may seem cheesy.
IMO those prog metal albums that mainly deal with fantasy - dungeons, dragons, etc - may be called "objectively cheesy", but even then there are some fans who would disagree.
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I agree! For some reason it seems that you can take the same lyrics and themes that are in a long symphonic prog song from the 70's and put it into a metal context and it becomes much cheesier. Maybe it's because with the added intensity of Metal things may seem over the top, yet there are many prog metal bands that do things in such a non-cheesy way. I can't think of anyone but Opeth that could get away with a great-sounding song about "The baying of the hounds" and "diabolical beasts". I think it all has to do with the metaphoric content of the song. Maybe that's why power metal bands like Blind Guardian get such a bad wrap (though Rhapsody...I mean Rhapsody "of Fire" is so undeniably cheesy, sorry to fans).
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:15 |
progismylife wrote:
I think it is the combination of metal and prog. If you didn't like metal and then it combines with your favorite music genre, you probably will try and avoid it. |
It's evident I lioke Prog being here, it's also true that I like a lot of plain Metal (Which has nothing of plain).
The combination of Prog and Metal is want makes me nuts in most of the cases. I feel (Oversimplifying) that Tales from Oceans, Garden of Angels (Anglagard is Swedish), Lambs on Broadway or the wives of any king don't blend too well with leather and flashy guitar solos.
Iván
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chessman
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:17 |
Simple answer from me:
Heavy guitar solos and blazing chords have done nothing for me since I was about 15! Standardised, formularised, and stagnant they seem.
Ok, the musical ideas can sometimes be good, and some songs may be quite long and elaborate in a progressive way, but that doesn't save them from the obligatory 'heavy, infectious riffing' and the 'oh no, it's time for another unoriginal solo!'
Too often, it's an excuse for a guitarist to say 'look how fast and loud I can play this thing!'
If I want metal I will listen to metal, but I don't like it in prog (although the occasional heavy guitar can be effective, if used sparingly and tastefully).
Just not my bag, I'm afraid, but each to their own; I never knock other people's tastes. In fact, it's a refreshing thing to hear what other people like.  |
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ResidentAlien
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Joined: January 17 2006
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:19 |
chessman wrote:
Simple answer from me:
Heavy guitar solos and blazing chords have done nothing for me since I was about 15! Standardised, formularised, and stagnant they seem.
Ok, the musical ideas can sometimes be good, and some songs may be quite long and elaborate in a progressive way, but that doesn't save them from the obligatory 'heavy, infectious riffing' and the 'oh no, it's time for another unoriginal solo!'
Too often, it's an excuse for a guitarist to say 'look how fast and loud I can play this thing!'
If I want metal I will listen to metal, but I don't like it in prog (although the occasional heavy guitar can be effective, if used sparingly and tastefully).
Just not my bag, I'm afraid, but each to their own; I never knock other people's tastes. In fact, it's a refreshing thing to hear what other people like. |
Lol, yet another one forming a hackneyed opinion of a genre based on one crappy band (Dream Theater). Try some Maudlin of the Well. Not all Prog Metal is about blazing fast guitar work.
Edited by ResidentAlien - December 23 2006 at 15:19
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stonebeard
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:23 |
ResidentAlien wrote:
Try some Maudlin of the Well. Not all Prog Metal is about blazing fast guitar work. |
But a lot is.
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salmacis
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:25 |
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Yes I said the same- it's not simply a case of 'if you don't like metal, you won't like prog metal'. That's way too much of an over-simplification.
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ResidentAlien
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:26 |
stonebeard wrote:
ResidentAlien wrote:
Try some Maudlin of the Well. Not all Prog Metal is about blazing fast guitar work. |
But a lot is. |
Some.... I don't typically listen to Dream Theater clones though.
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Clark Ashton
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:27 |
I feel there are too many prog-metal bands that are either cookie cutter acts of Queensryche, Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Anathema, My Dying Bride, and Paradise Lost or Nu-Metal bands under the "Math Metal" guise.
But there are others that bring something new and unique to the table.
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And he took the stars
In his hands
And as he scattered them he’d shout
“I’m the joker of the universe
I’m what it’s all about”
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ResidentAlien
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:30 |
Clark Ashton wrote:
I feel there are too many prog-metal bands that are either cookie cutter acts of Queensryche, Dream Theater, Fates Warning, Anathema, My Dying Bride, and Paradise Lost or Nu-Metal bands under the "Math Metal" guise.
But there are others that bring something new and unique to the table. |
Yeah, sure. Same could be said for nearly any genre. Which is why hating on Prog-Metal really confuses me.
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salmacis
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:30 |
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I think we have just got Exhibit A posted on this forum of why the genre gets a bad rep- check out the post about it being a 'simple fact' that 'Dream Theater is the best progressive band of all time'. That monumental overhype (I'd not claim that of even any of the 70s bands, let alone a more modern one- it's simply impossible to prove) automatically sets us more cynical types off.
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ResidentAlien
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:32 |
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Yeah, saw that topic. There are lots of bands I adore... but claiming any to be the best is pretty ridiculous. My favorite band is Pink Floyd... but even they had their misses. Final Cut anyone? No band is infalliable.
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salmacis
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:33 |
Well, I don't mind The Final Cut too much. See? It's impossible to prove!  I'd just avoid that DT topic completely and let it die a death before a war starts...
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ResidentAlien
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:37 |
salmacis wrote:
Well, I don't mind The Final Cut too much. See? It's impossible to prove! I'd just avoid that DT topic completely and let it die a death before a war starts... |
Nah... best to have a little fun with it.  As for Final Cut... it has it's moments. I find it rather disappointing as a whole.
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progismylife
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:38 |
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I like how the topic poster said "With all my respect to every progressive band !!!" even though he said they were all second to Dream Theater in the title. Oh the irony kills me.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:39 |
ResidentAlien wrote:
Yeah, sure. Same could be said for nearly any genre. Which is why hating on Prog-Metal really confuses me.
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I don't blame the Prog Metal bands for this allergic reaction, I would blame SOME fans, I remember a couple of years ago when we had 11 Dream Theater threads open simultaneously about Dream Theater (Every day) and some of them with members ready to kill yopu if you were not willing to accept that DT was the best band in history.
Iván
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progismylife
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:40 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
ResidentAlien wrote:
Yeah, sure. Same could be said for nearly any genre. Which is why hating on Prog-Metal really confuses me. |
I don't blame the Prog Metal bands for this allergic reaction, I would blame SOME fans, I remember a couple of years ago when we had 11 Dream Theater threads open simultaneously about Dream Theater (Every day) and some of them with members ready to kill yopu if you were not willing to accept that DT was the best band in history.
Iván
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That's scary. I might just have to get some Dream Theater because of that.
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salmacis
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:47 |
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Yes, there's only a certain contingent of fans that get hot under the collar about it. How many 'CTTE is overrated' or 'Pink Floyd are not prog' or 'Genesis are boring and dated' threads have we had? I personally take those as the reactionary posts they are intended as and ignore them, rather than the behaviour of some, when that Petrucci shred corruption thing on YouTube was deemed as 'disrespectful' by a few people...Come on now, lighten up a bit.
I do remember the Octavarium days though. I'd just joined the forum then- I'd even go so far to say that the new DT album should NOT be put on the site until the day it is released after that, when there were hundreds of 5 star reviews literally weeks before it was issued. That was just ridiculous, and I think it's this overhype that means prog metal gets the short end of the stick rather than the music itself which I'm indifferent to rather than outright loathing.
Edited by salmacis - December 23 2006 at 15:48
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ResidentAlien
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Posted: December 23 2006 at 15:52 |
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I try and find good in as many genres as I can and for that reason I find it particularly ridiculous that Prog-Metal is so detested around here. It's still progressive music; perhaps heavier, perhaps more aggressive, but what I thought united us as music fans was our love for music that doesn't confine itself to something easily digestible and marketable. If that's the case, why look down on Prog Metal? A lot of it (if you look past Dream Theater) is doing something original and is progressing music.
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The "problem" with prog metal
