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horsewithteeth11 ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 09 2008 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 24598 |
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I wouldn't be for the complete abolition of the federal government, and if I was I would be an anarchist. I do however think the federal government should be limited to the few basics you described and a few others (police, courts, taxes for essential goods/services, etc). I just think that the federal government is currently way too big. Cutting down on or eliminating the Department of Education and The Department of Energy (although I'd probably exclude the EPA) would save us several billion dollars every year that are wasted as far as I'm concerned. I have a night class that I'm about to be late for, so I'll finish this later tonight. ![]() |
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horsewithteeth11 ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 09 2008 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 24598 |
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Maybe if it's Anarcho-Capitalism, yes. ![]() |
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JJLehto ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
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That raises this question though.
If you guys got what you wanted, what would it be? No federal government and a pure states rights system? That seems a bit much to me, would you guys like a very limited federal government (support a military, enforce contracts, the sheer basics)? And if we did move to a states rights system, wouldn't tax burden simply shift from being a federal thing to the states? I mean, if there's no federal funding...there needs to be roads, hospitals? Education? Wouldn't the things funded by the fed gvmt, simply be paid for be the states? This is something I just thought of, so forgive me if my concept is weak or not really there ![]() Edited by JJLehto - June 24 2010 at 16:16 |
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JJLehto ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
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No, no the Paul's are the only 2 Reps out there that are truly libertarian, at least that I know of. I know their beliefs well, a good friend of mine never, ever stops telling me ![]() |
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Triceratopsoil ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
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^ it really depends if we're discussing "classical liberalism" i.e. the ideal American government, or "modern liberalism" i.e. what is favoured in most of the remaining democratic world
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JJLehto ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
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Depends how strict you want to be, if you go strictly by the book, and I DO know one or two that do, government needs to be hands off, period. A good friend of mine is personally opposed, but is pro choice, same with gay marriage and drugs. But it must be tough to totally disregard your beliefs for the sake of "to each their own" But Rob you will admit most Republicans are not really libertarian. And I think you were being silly, but fears of Liberalism leading to socialism? Couldn't one argue libertarianism will lead to anarchism? ![]() |
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horsewithteeth11 ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 09 2008 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 24598 |
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I don't disagree with it at all. I think a lot of Republicans use a few libertarian ideas simply as a tool to gain popularity, but then discard those ideas when they actually have to decide whether or not to put them into practice. Speaking of the Pauls, here are some of Rand Paul's beliefs: Paul believes life begins at conception and the government should play a role in protecting all human beings. He is opposed to abortion and supports a Human Life Amendment and a Life at Conception Act.[69][70] In cases of rape and incest, he opposes abortion[71] but supports use of the morning-after pill.[72] He opposes federal funding for abortion.[69] He takes a states' rights position, favoring the overturn of Roe vs Wade and allowing states to decide on the legality of abortions without federal interference.[73] Paul opposes the USA PATRIOT Act, and opposes warrantless searches and breach of individual privacy authorized by the legislation.[77] Paul supports returning control of education to local communities and parents and thus eliminating the federal Department of Education. He opposes federal regulation of homeschooling and believes in restoring parental rights to education.[80] Paul does not support amnesty. Paul believes the United States subsidizes illegal immigration through taxpayer funded welfare and medical care. He has proposed securing the border by an underground electric fence and helicopter stations.[83] He opposes birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants.[84] Paul opposes same-sex marriage, but believes the issue should be left to the states to decide.[70] Try finding a Republican who has the balls to say that the Patriot Act is wrong or that same-sex marriage should be left up to the states to decide. Because I certainly haven't found one yet. |
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Triceratopsoil ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
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Well, since Canada is under the Conservative party right now and we're STILL techinically more left wing than the states, who are under the Democratic party (when it comes to health care, education, welfare, government ownership/intervention in the economy, etc.)... Overall, definitely Canada's more liberal. I guess, on the other hand, the difference is that right now our government is cutting everything, moving more to the right, trying to make us more like the americans you could say, while you guys are moving to the left, becoming more liberal, starting to hint at potentially becoming a mixed economy like Canada... although, I seriously doubt the democrats will be in power long enough for that. Next federal election Obama will be out, I would wager. Then, the hippies and the art students and the poor people and the young downtown crowds will complain while the cowboys, businessmen and Christians will be happy; so the cycle continues. |
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Epignosis ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: December 30 2007 Location: Raeford, NC Status: Offline Points: 32566 |
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Not so. A pro-life libertarian would say that abortion is murder, and therefore falls outside of individual liberties. You are confusing libertarianism with total anarchism. ![]() |
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JJLehto ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
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But you will grant that few people seem to be TRUE libertarians?
Most talk about the $$ but almost no one touches the social aspects of it. I guess the Paul's are the only politicians to do so. Most Republicans are not true libertarians in my opinion, and can you really disagree with that? Was it Anton? who said we have one party that wants to control your money, and one that wants to control your life? Obviously, a simple, kinda funny assessment, but pretty much true. Edited by JJLehto - June 24 2010 at 16:05 |
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horsewithteeth11 ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 09 2008 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 24598 |
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Thank you. ![]() Although that being said, I would still be against legalization of hard drugs (i.e. cocaine, meth, etc.) because I feel they're more harmful for society than marijuana could ever be. Edited by horsewithteeth11 - June 24 2010 at 16:04 |
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JJLehto ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
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Damn it! I accidentaly deleted my post ![]() ![]() I assume this was in response to my post? Eh...long story short, I said that Dems and Reps are not that different really. Dems may be more liberal, but they still look out for the interest of banks, corporations, the "fat cats" before regular people. And Republicans have certainly left their libertarian roots over the Reagan and Bush years. Then I had a rant about liberal senator Chris Dodd trying to kill the wall street reform bill, even proposing ideas he opposed years ago. Dodd receives $ from those involved.... Special interests and hypocrisy...I am a "reluctant democrat" and I certainly don't like them at times. So Captain, would you say the Democrats are as right as your conservative party, or that overall Canada is more liberal and your conservative party is the same as our Dems? Edited by JJLehto - June 24 2010 at 15:56 |
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Triceratopsoil ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
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The democratic party is as right-wing as Canada's conservative party. The reason Americans think they don't like left-wing politics and economics is that they've never actually experienced them
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Triceratopsoil ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
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No, but most of the people posting here are |
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manofmystery ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 26 2008 Location: PA, USA Status: Offline Points: 4335 |
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Hahaha, yes, everything that doesn't fit your world view is obviously conservative propaganda. Everything is invalidated when it isn't what you want to hear. Libertarians aren't really "conservatives", by the way.
I got to laugh twice on this page:
Maybe only "sources" who openly disrespect those with differing opinions (like the one above) are to be listened to. Always a good sign when you start off with derogatory terms. Oh, those evil tea-party attendees: how dare they gather to question authority, only liberals are allowed to do that.
![]() The second paragraph is exceptionally funny because in arguing against the power of corporations it points out that they are only so powerful because of the political influence they are able to gain in our country. Why do you think they have armies of lobbyists and lawyers? Oh wait, he answers that: "executives suites and Washington backrooms to rig the economic and governmental rules". So, his beef is more of less the same as a Libertarians, he just misses the answer to the problem completely. Regulations only breed further corruption, further need for lobbyists gaming the system for exemptions and sweetheart deals, less choice/competition.
Then in the next paragraph he argues out of both sides of his mouth (either trying to cover his tracks upon realizing his earlier mistake or simple out of ignorance) saying that corporations are the true powers behind the "throne" only to then say that smaller government would be a "wet dream" for them. I may have to use the line " the real issue isn't small government, it's good government" the next time I'm accused of being an unrealistic dreamer. We'll just have to find perfect, infallible, people to occupy political office and fill our bureaucracy. That shouldn't be too hard because we know: only working in the private sector corrupts people, not filling actual positions of power. Large corporations love large government because they have the ability to work the system and the chances of competitors popping up is stiffled by regulations that only the largest companies can stay competitive under.
Funny, I've never heard a tea-party referred to as a populist in the mainstream media. Seems to me they've been too busy trying to insult and discredit them. By the way, the point of populism is favoring "the people" over "the elites". How is favoring one group of "elites" (government officials) over another (your corporate monsters) true populism? In fact, the Law of Unintended Consequences rears its head again as the power of "the people" becomes more limited as government grows.
But hey, don't listen to me: I discredited myself by not doing any name calling or using any derogatory terms.
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JJLehto ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Status: Offline Points: 34550 |
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Agreed Slarti, Social Democracy is what I've advocated for a few years now.
It really does work well in the Nordic countries, but not sure if it could implemented as in the US, at least now. And yes, I have noticed almost all Libertarians, especially now with this wave sweeping the Republicans, seems to focus solely on the $$$$. A TRUE Libertarian would be pro choice, support gay marriage, drug legalization...government can't tall us to do nothing! As I like to say, Libertarians are Republicans - the morals ![]() ![]() I only know one person, and I guess maybe llama, that was truly dedicated to Libertarianism. So much so, he is religious but pro choice, is personally opposed to drugs but supports legalization. Talk about sticking to ideology Edited by JJLehto - June 24 2010 at 14:22 |
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thellama73 ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: May 29 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 8368 |
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Indeed it is! We can disapprove of something without seeking a government ban on it. People should be free to choose what they put into their own bodies. |
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Triceratopsoil ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 03 2010 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 18016 |
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Man of mystery that video is not a legitimate source because it's mostly conservative propaganda
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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You wouldn't know that from the media, but I thought the official libertarian position was for not just the legalization of medical pot but all recreational drugs in general. ![]() |
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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horsewithteeth11 ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: January 09 2008 Location: Kentucky Status: Offline Points: 24598 |
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He's for the legalization of medical marijuana actually. |
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