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Rick Robson View Drop Down
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Points: 1607 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2014 at 20:42
Originally posted by KingCrInuYasha KingCrInuYasha wrote:

For a non prog example, "For Emily, Whenever I May Find Her" by Simon & Garfunkel. The studio version from Parsley, Sage Rosemary And Thyme was pretty good, but the live version from Live 1969 just annihilates it. 
 
Why not another non prog example:
The incredible guitarist Mark Knopfler was brilliantly inspired in the "Alchemy" show (1984), particularly in the amazing performance at the final part of the track "Tunnel Of Love" - his guitar litteraly blew my mind off, such was my delight with that!


"Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy." LvB
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Points: 1607 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2014 at 20:47
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:

Eloy - The Sun-Song (Live - 1978)
Eloy - The Dance in Doubt and Fear (Live - 1978)
Rush - Xanadu (Exit... Stage Left)


I prefer all the songs on Eloy's Live to their studio counterparts. Fantastic live album.

I've always liked the version of "A Passage to Bangkok" on E...SL better than the original.
 
Yeah well reminded about Eloy and Rush, I'm going to give them some other great spins...


Edited by Rick Robson - August 15 2014 at 20:47


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Points: 12810 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2014 at 21:48
Now that I read some more posts, I must say that I agree with Jimmi Hendrix. I didn't really understand what was all the fuss about his guitar playing, having heard mainly studio hits. But then I got a few live albums, and it was a whole different experience; I still like better many of my prog hero guitar players, but Hendrix did have some cool chops. I also agree with Black Sabbath. I got some of their studio albums and I got the reunion live album... and there's just about nothing I'd rather hear on their original versions (except perhaps the Black Sabbath song itself)... it is heavier and better played on reunion. I also like very much the versions on Live Evil, with Dio on vocals, whom I consider a vastly superior singer than Ozzy.
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Points: 18061 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2014 at 17:37
Originally posted by Kazza3 Kazza3 wrote:

Led Zeppelin are probably the biggest example of this for me. Most of their albums are just 'good' to me, there are some great tunes but the whole affair just doesn't draw me that much. But live, especially How The West Was Won, now that's a killer band.
 
Considering that "How the West Was Won" was taken and fudged by Jimmy fro several bootlegs .... it is not as good as the originals.
 
NOTE: I'm not an expert on boots. I have, however, heard quite a few in my life!
 
However, like most bootlegs, the "quality" has a way of ruining things for us all. But, if you can SEPARATE the recording, from the FEELING behind it all, the LA series around Bonzo's Birthday Parties, were the best series of bootlegs EVER done, and the energy was not only addictive, it was strong! After that the early boots for 1970 and 1971 are the bery best.
 
PF's bootlegs, tell a different story about their life/living that the books don't and none of the members discuss. It's almost like the albums lie, and their voices are the truth, but try telling folks at PA that the bootlegs show Syd preaching as the Greatest Gig in the Sky and everyone here goes ... ??????????? .... which actually made a lot more sense given hteir history than what was done ... which of course, ended up being historic and too pretty to not be appreciated!
 
DSOTM stunk in concert and there were too many problems with their electronice stuff and many times the film (French Windows) was out of sync. Also, many of the lazer and lights were out of sync. This got cleaned up and fixed by the time they did their next tour. I think it also affected the quality of the live stuff. I have not heard a single DSOTM in the early days (specially!!!!!) that was good. The later versions were excellent, but already out of time and sync.
 
If you have never heard it, you must hear "The Beatles" stuff that was live in Hamburg (used to be 3 LP's) so you can get a massive idea of how well they stretched their material all the way to "Abbey Road".
 
In my experience, the live versions are really good for learning and finding out WHO the artist really is. In many ways, you don't even have to know, when it comes to folks like Peter Hammill ... but many other bands ... it's a different ballgame.
 
Better bands live than LP/CD
 
Guru Guru -- the best ever. Like Led Z, the early stuff, specially, is outrageous and the most insane guitar ever played. I'm almost thinking that Ax Gernreich (sp!) is the best progressive/experimental guitarist there is ... but I'm not sure that most folks here can handle some of that stuff. I honestly believe that there is a lot of Jimi Hendrix out there with stuff like this, that we will never hear, because the folks that own/have the music don't get it, or can relate to this kind of craziness, and it will remain hidden and forever wasted.
 
Amon Duul 2 -- specially early. In their later days, they got very sloppy and bad as a live band. But stuff from their first 3 albums that is improvisational and live, appears to not be touched enough to be heard well.
 
Cozmic Couriers -- Most of those albums and early Ash Ra Tempel stuff, as well as Popol Vuh, can only be recorded and done ONCE. Normally you can not recreate the feeling or experience in order to have this redone again, and be played better a 2nd time. The fact that almost none of it was ever "redone" in any shape should tell you that it was a one off "experience" that could not be recreated. The time is past and over with!
 
Magma -- Only seen them once, and we gave them a standing ovation. It felt like this was either going to be glorious, or a disaster. There is no description or words, for the result. Totally magnetic and insane energy all the way through, and it makes you stand there in awe, that someone can do this ... non-stop ... and so beautifully!
 
Man -- the ol' Man Band with Mickie and Deke, was unreal ... catch the live version of C'mon in Back into the Future, and just die away with the yodelling along with the Chorus! You can not buy that anywhere, and the fact that it was caught is short of miraculous!
 
Return to Forever -- With Ponty, specially. As much as the music in the albums is great, their live experience, is a lesson on musicianship, beauty, creativity, and folks that DO KNOW what the fidge they are doing, and they are not just plying riffs to excite your wee wee ... outstanding musicianship and then some!
 
Tangerine Dream -- Specially in the early days, and thus the incredible number of live albums and bootlegs in those days, because it was really difficult to duplicate everything they created on an album, or on the stage. It wasn't until much later that their sound became closer to the albums, however, their live experience (check out 220 Volt Live), is still more enthralling and exciting than the albums themselves. Live though the Phaedra 25th anniversay concert if you dare, because many of us will have our hearts just swimming in it ... how music has changed, and yet you sit there and cry ... because the beauty LIVES!
 
Klaus Schulze -- The albums are nice, but live he is even better. Grab the Das Rheingold DVD, and see the two specials and then watch the show, and you end up watching an audience get excited about him doing a "sequencer" piece! They know the feeling and how it takes you away so much!
 
Can I live though "Mirage" one more time???? Ohhh yeahhhh I can!


Edited by moshkito - August 16 2014 at 18:09
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2014 at 21:11

Roger Daltrey The Song Is Over (Who's Next, 1971) at Carnegie Hall 1994, from Daltrey Sings Townshend DVD 2009





Edited by Svetonio - August 17 2014 at 01:43
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Points: 470 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 16 2014 at 23:25
Yessongs was, unusually, not only the first Yes album I ever bought, but one of the first I bought by anybody. So it’s always held a special place for me, but even if it didn’t, I’d still consider many tracks to be superior to the studio versions, especially Siberian Khatru (love how it just busts out from the Firebird opening), Heart of the Sunrise and Perpetual Change. I’m tempted to add The Fish but that’s more like apples and oranges, since it’s so different from the original, with the multitracked bass parts played separately and expanded upon.
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Silly human race! Yes is for everybody!
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Svetonio View Drop Down
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2014 at 00:42
Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Yessongs was, unusually, not only the first Yes album I ever bought, but one of the first I bought by anybody. So it’s always held a special place for me, but even if it didn’t, I’d still consider many tracks to be superior to the studio versions, especially Siberian Khatru (love how it just busts out from the Firebird opening), Heart of the Sunrise and Perpetual Change. I’m tempted to add The Fish but that’s more like apples and oranges, since it’s so different from the original, with the multitracked bass parts played separately and expanded upon.
Yessongs for Yes is what Live is for Genesis. Both albums contain definitive versions of some great songs.
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Points: 12810 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2014 at 22:02
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:


Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

Yessongs was, unusually, not only the first Yes album I ever bought, but one of the first I bought by anybody. So it’s always held a special place for me, but even if it didn’t, I’d still consider many tracks to be superior to the studio versions, especially Siberian Khatru (love how it just busts out from the Firebird opening), Heart of the Sunrise and Perpetual Change. I’m tempted to add The Fish but that’s more like apples and oranges, since it’s so different from the original, with the multitracked bass parts played separately and expanded upon.

Yessongs for Yes is what Live is for Genesis. <span ="hps" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">Both</span><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;"> </span><span ="hps" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">albums</span><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;"> </span><span ="hps" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">contain</span><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;"> </span><span ="hps" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">definitive</span><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;"> </span><span ="hps" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">versions of some great</span><span style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;"> </span><span ="hps" style="font-size: 12px; line-height: 1.2;">songs.</span>


The problem with Genesis Live is that it misses some of the songs... in order to make it fit in a single album, I think. If it had the complete concert... or at least a complete set-list with the songs taken from different concerts (such as Yes did), then it would have been much better. Good for me, I got the live box-set, so I have Genesis Live, and Live in the Rainbow, and between both albums I got a complete set-list from the time. And indeed, many of the songs are so much better live.
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Points: 29402 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 01:08
What do people think of the 1969-1975 Archive version of The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway? I was listening to The Lamia yesterday and thought it sounded great. I am aware that Gabriel re-recorded his vocals for its release but they sound good to me.

Edited by richardh - August 18 2014 at 01:09
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 08:36

Highway Star is better here than the studio version.
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Points: 23104 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 08:57
A lot of my fave albums are actually "live" albums just recorded in the studio. Granted, a bit of fiddling took place, but then again: how many of our fave live recordings are tweeked afterwards?
Can's Future Days along with Amon Düül's Yeti are two albums that instantly spring to mind. The live from London album is one I never got around to hearing, but from what I've heard over the tube, it's pretty easy calling most of what these two acts were doing: "live".

As for the OP: I prefer almost all Floyd live to studio with but a few exceptions where I love the both about equally. Case in point: Saucerful of Secrets. Absolutely breathtaking whether it's live or the original pastoral cut.
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Points: 470 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 21:10
Originally posted by Svetonio Svetonio wrote:

Yessongs for Yes is what Live is for Genesis. Both albums contain definitive versions of some great songs.

I think I may have heard that live version of Watcher of the Skies first, courtesy of one of the hipper AOR stations in the country in the 70s. I find some the Seconds Out versions preferable as well, mainly Afterglow (with Chester’s added drum riffs), Cinema Show (with the blistering Phil & Bill battle), and I Know What I Like (with the imported riffs from older songs and Phil’s endearing looniness).

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

A lot of my fave albums are actually "live" albums just recorded in the studio. Granted, a bit of fiddling took place, but then again: how many of our fave live recordings are tweeked afterwards?
Some, like Zappa, are more open about the use of overdubs. Frank was always upfront about where they were used, like on Tinsel Town Rebellion and Sheik Yerbouti. But with some you have to figure there’s some tinkering going on, like Phil Manzanera’s 801 Live. Especially the vocals on You Really Got Me, which are obviously processed.

Careful With That Axe, Eugene from Ummagumma always kills, with the scream that can knock you silly if you’re unprepared and the pin-drop ending. Audiences sure were more attentive and respectful back then, weren’t they?
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Points: 1607 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 21:21
Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:


I think I may have heard that live version of Watcher of the Skies first, courtesy of one of the hipper AOR stations in the country in the 70s. I find some the Seconds Out versions preferable as well, mainly Afterglow (with Chester’s added drum riffs), Cinema Show (with the blistering Phil & Bill battle), and I Know What I Like (with the imported riffs from older songs and Phil’s endearing looniness).
 
I didn't know there are older performances of I Know What I Like as good as that from Seconds Out, really good to know, the very first song of Genesis that I happened to know was just this performance of it in the very good Seconds Out show.


Edited by Rick Robson - August 18 2014 at 21:28


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Points: 21298 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 21:42
People have already mentioned most of my favorites
Deep Purple- Made In Japan
King Crimson - Great Deceiver Box
Pink Floyd - Ummagumma
Henry Cow - Concerts (disc 1 is definitive)
Caravan - Fairfield
Magma - Hhai
Nik Bartsch Ronin - Live
Yugen - Mirrors
Hawkwind - Space Ritual
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Points: 12810 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 22:10
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:



What do people think of the 1969-1975 Archive version of The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway? I was listening to The Lamia yesterday and thought it sounded great. I am aware that Gabriel re-recorded his vocals for its release but they sound good to me.



I'm afraid I haven't heard that one... but the version I have of "Genesis Live" (from the live box-set) has some songs from the Lamb shows added. I must admit I aren't the biggest fan of that album, but the versions I got on that album are much better than the studio ones for me. I don't know if those versions have the re-recorded vocals or not, but I actually liked them better live than on studio. Once again, I'm not particularly fond of Gabriel's vocals (that's an important reason why I don't like The Lamb so much)... but somehow I found his singing more enjoyable live than on studio.
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Points: 470 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 22:27
Originally posted by Rick Robson Rick Robson wrote:


Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

I think I may have heard that live version of Watcher of the Skies first, courtesy of one of the hipper AOR stations in the country in the 70s. I find some the Seconds Out versions preferable as well, mainly Afterglow (with Chester’s added drum riffs), Cinema Show (with the blistering Phil & Bill battle), and I Know What I Like (with the imported riffs from older songs and Phil’s endearing looniness).
 
I didn't know there are older performances of I Know What I Like as good as that from Seconds Out, really good to know, the very first song of Genesis that I happened to know was just this performance of it in the very good Seconds Out show.

Just so we’re both clear: the “imported riffs” I referred to are the ones from Dancing With the Moonlit Knight, White Mountain, and Stagnation that pop up in the Seconds Out version of IKWIL.
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 23:29


Biko is undoubtely better at Plays Live than the studio version.



Edited by Svetonio - August 18 2014 at 23:55
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Points: 29402 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2014 at 00:58
Originally posted by Dellinger Dellinger wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:



What do people think of the 1969-1975 Archive version of The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway? I was listening to The Lamia yesterday and thought it sounded great. I am aware that Gabriel re-recorded his vocals for its release but they sound good to me.



I'm afraid I haven't heard that one... but the version I have of "Genesis Live" (from the live box-set) has some songs from the Lamb shows added. I must admit I aren't the biggest fan of that album, but the versions I got on that album are much better than the studio ones for me. I don't know if those versions have the re-recorded vocals or not, but I actually liked them better live than on studio. Once again, I'm not particularly fond of Gabriel's vocals (that's an important reason why I don't like The Lamb so much)... but somehow I found his singing more enjoyable live than on studio.

I avoided the live box set because it looked very pricey although I would like the remaster of Seconds Out.
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Points: 3126 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2014 at 03:05
The standout selection here is Gates of Delirium by Yes.  The Yesshows version is a million times better than the studio version.  I never play the Relayer version, it's so limp in comparison.

Virtually the entirety of Eloy's Ocean is on Eloy Live and it's all much better on the live album.

All the tracks on the Ummagumma live disc are infinitely better than the studio versions of these tracks.

That'll do for startersWink.
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Points: 18061 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 19 2014 at 08:52
Originally posted by AreYouHuman AreYouHuman wrote:

 
... Some, like Zappa, are more open about the use of overdubs. Frank was always upfront about where they were used, like on Tinsel Town Rebellion and Sheik Yerbouti. But with some you have to figure there’s some tinkering going on, like Phil Manzanera’s 801 Live. Especially the vocals on You Really Got Me, which are obviously processed. ...

 
I think the whole thing with Zappa and his overdubs is overblown out of spec!
 
The majority of the work that we love by him, is done live. He doesn't need the overdubs to make himself sound better!
 
I have the feeling that he used the overdubs as a way to get more out of the music, and he would play it, or experiment with it while warming up for a concert, or the like.
 
Weird to hear this about overdubs ... if there is one person that doesn't need the overdubs, it would be Frank! But we have to credit the overdubs, not the composer?
 
I wonder how many overdubs Beethoven had? Or Mozart? ... now that would be a good question! Maybe we're not being smart enough and over rating things like "overdubs"!!!!
Beer


Edited by moshkito - August 19 2014 at 08:58
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