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altaeria ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 05 2004 Location: Philadelphia Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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Actually, I wasn't around in the early 70s to validate your cliche "that stuff I used to hear in the 70s" argument -- but nice try. Unfortunately, this site has become extremely ambiguous in its scope over the past few years and I can hardly utilize it as a reference tool these days. Oh well. That really sucks for me. ![]() I suppose I could open my mind, though ... and start listening to some Growling Death Thrash Grunge Fusion ... err... I mean... "PROG metal". Thanks for the advice! I knew I could count on you young Twitterers to help me out ! ![]() PS: Somebody mentioned David Gilmour earlier. So why does he get his own entry again ?? ![]() |
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Slartibartfast ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam Joined: April 29 2006 Location: Atlantais Status: Offline Points: 29630 |
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Yes but it involves a really complicated secret ritual...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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octopus-4 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14567 |
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I have mentioned David Gilmour. I hope you'll not be concerned if I comment your sentences. I was around in the early 70s and the word "progressive" I think has been used for the first time around 1972 and it took several years to become a label. Nobody was thinking of anything called prog in these years. I think I've heard it for the first time at the end of the 80s. I don't see the ambiguity in the site. I don't get your point so I can't comment. About prog metal, give a try to Ayreon's "The Human Equation" with a bit of open mind and let me know what you think. If you really want to open your mind I can suggest you "Universal Totem Orchestra", the first 4 albums of Art Zoyd or even the last live of Nichelodeon (the first things that I have in mind). No metal of any kind there. Even Sir Gilmour has attempted something really new for him with his colaboration with "The Orb". Try it.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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SouthSideoftheSky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Symphonic Team Joined: June 29 2008 Location: Close To The... Status: Offline Points: 1960 |
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1.) As I have stated already in several other threads, I support Trevor Rabin for Prog Related. There is no way that he is Symphonic Prog though, and our team would surely reject him.
2.) The procedure as described above is how is ought to work, not how it really works most of the time (especially not for Prog Related suggestions). Most such suggestions never lead to formal evaluation. Trevor Rabin is a good example of this; he has been suggested many times, but nothing has happened. What’s the point of creating yet another thread when nothing happens? 3.) Instead of any more fruitless discussion: Take a good look at the guidelines for Prog Related, gather a number relevant facts about Rabin with the guidelines in mind, and get a special collaborator to send a private message to the admins. (And then be prepared to wait loooong time before any result).
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octopus-4 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14567 |
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True if you think to "related". For full prog categories that's the process, I think.
Edited by octopus-4 - July 09 2012 at 08:31 |
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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SouthSideoftheSky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Symphonic Team Joined: June 29 2008 Location: Close To The... Status: Offline Points: 1960 |
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Personally, I would love PA to be a little bit more like Rateyourmusic. Many of my favourite bands are borderline Prog, and many of these are presently included in PA's Prog Related category, but not all of them.
Many here seem to think that we are scaring people off by including "questionable" or "unpure" artists. I think the opposite is true. If Queen, Black Sabbath, Rainbow, etc. would not have been here, I would most probably never have found my way here. These are, after all, great "gateway" bands. I think we should be more liberal with inclusions.
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octopus-4 ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() RIO/Avant/Zeuhl,Neo & Post/Math Teams Joined: October 31 2006 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14567 |
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Here I agree with you (also with the mentioned bands), but remaining "specialized" is not snobism. I think it gives the site a punctual identity. The criteria for inclusion may be discussed or changed, of course.
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I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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SouthSideoftheSky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Symphonic Team Joined: June 29 2008 Location: Close To The... Status: Offline Points: 1960 |
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Yes, indeed it is. But as far as Trevor Rabin is concerned, I think Prog Related is the only option. Though I haven't heard his latest album. |
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SouthSideoftheSky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Symphonic Team Joined: June 29 2008 Location: Close To The... Status: Offline Points: 1960 |
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Yes, I agree that we should indeed remain specialized. But with open minds. |
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yam yam ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Online Points: 7184 |
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Well, there might well be a way to add Trevor Rabin to the site after all: http://progfreak.com/Trevor-Rabin-135138.html?path=pa/recent. If Diego votes 'yes' (he wasn't in the team when all the earlier 'Prog Related' votes were cast) then it's a done deal.
![]() A whole raft of artists for whom the original general consensus was 'Prog Related' have been reintroduced to the Crossover charts for a second bite. I guess this is due to the fact that the chances of any of them actually being seriously considered by admins for PR are somewhere just below zero...so the votes that were cast for that category are to all intents and purposes meaningless. Interesting times...!
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SouthSideoftheSky ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Symphonic Team Joined: June 29 2008 Location: Close To The... Status: Offline Points: 1960 |
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Great, I hope that he votes 'yes' then, because it is a real shame that Trevor Rabin is not here already. He clearly belongs in Prog Related! Bring him on ![]() |
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Dean ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin and Amateur Layabout Joined: May 13 2007 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 37575 |
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Not that I care any more, this trend of Crossover being reduced to a pale shadow of Prog Related is far from good. Best of luck with that guys (he said despondently and not without a hint of bitter sarcasm)
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What?
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Chris S ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: June 09 2004 Location: Front Range Status: Offline Points: 7028 |
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Not sure I would have phrased it quite like that, unfair to Admin and perhaps a certain CZ a more appropriate place
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...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR] |
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Guldbamsen ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Retired Admin Joined: January 22 2009 Location: Magic Theatre Status: Offline Points: 23104 |
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I must admit that Rabin's music is an unknown to me, outside of 'Drama'.
And I won't be able to stream music until sometime next week:( Judging purely from Dean's comment above, this whole thing feels a little funny though. |
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“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”
- Douglas Adams |
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yam yam ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Online Points: 7184 |
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It wasn't intended as a slur on our admins, who do a fantastic job. It was merely a reflection of the very strict set of criteria which the site requires to be satisfied before an artist can even be considered by them for Prog Related. This subject has been brought up in several other threads on here, and it has been well explained that we don't want the Prog Related category to expand so that it has even more artists in it than the 'real' prog subs do. A fair number of suggestions that the Crossover team are presented with are kind of 'borderline cases', and team members often vote 'Prog Related' if they feel that is the most appropriate place for them to be filed. However, due to the strict entry criteria which rightly exist for PR, the need for an SC to step forward and put together a convincing case in support of the artist and present it to admins in the first place, etc etc, artists with a majority of votes cast for Prog Related tend to get shuffled off into the 'discuss' section on progfreak, where they just sit stagnating for months on end because there is little or no chance of them ever actually being considered for this category. These artists have been brought back into the charts for another look in the hope that a definite 'yes' or 'no' decision can be reached rather than the current indefinite one for Prog Related, which would most likely never be resolved. That is how I see it, anyway.
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lazland ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13798 |
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I sympathise with this. When I was a collab on the neo team and new suggestions, it was very much the case that Crossover was seen as a sort of "let's get them in here, because nobody else will have or take them" sub-genre, which I am fairly certain was not the intent when the sub genre was created. My own preference, for which I have been slated, remains to go back to having a general Art Rock category, and not expanding the prog related at all except in a very few, very rare, instances. I am of the opinion that it is easier to say, Rabin is an Art Rock artist that Rabin might be a Crossover artist. In the latter, 99% of people here would not have a clue what that was defined as anyway. I know I would struggle, and that is the problem with all fabricated things. I have, btw, listened to Rabin's latest. I was not impressed enough to buy it, although I did enjoy his contributions to Yes. My impression was that this would qualify as a piece of art rock. It was most certainly not a pop album.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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lazland ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13798 |
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Oh, by the way, Rabin should absolutely not be in prog related. His solo output has been of absolutely nil influence on anybody else at all, as far as I am aware.
His inclusion here should be solely on the basis of whether he has released a prog rock album, or not, simple as. My vote, if I had one, would be yes re Jacuranda.
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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yam yam ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Crossover Team Joined: June 16 2011 Location: Kerberos Status: Online Points: 7184 |
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And so it is Steve.
![]() Trevor Rabin is now therefore cleared for inclusion in Crossover.
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Atavachron ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: September 30 2006 Location: Pearland Status: Offline Points: 65664 |
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But in our time, especially for people under 30 or so, 'Art Rock' is not necessarily any more clear than 'Crossover Prog', and though the term Art-Rock has been around a long time and was not our invention, it is a novel term to very many younger people. Besides, isn't all prog "Artrock" ? And then there's that annoying difference between the European definition of Artrock and the American one. |
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lazland ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: October 28 2008 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 13798 |
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Good ![]() Time now, then, to revisit Phil Collins on the basis of Face Value ![]() (Please, everyone, do not bother to respond. It is a joke).
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Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org
Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time! |
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