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Slartibartfast 
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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 Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:03 |
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I used to build model airplanes from kits. I was particularly fond of WW II aircraft. I had put together a large scale Stuka dive bomber. And yes it came with decals for the original markings. The cat knocked it off the dresser and destroyed it. My favorite was a Flying Fortress model.
Edited by Slartibartfast - March 01 2011 at 07:05
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator
Prog Folk
Joined: April 29 2004
Location: Heart of Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 20414
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:13 |
There is a difference with the Wermacht cross and the nazi cross
I've seeln allmodels - I used to build those 1/35th Tamya models with the army crosses - they're not illegal anywhere, I think.... But the slated nazi cross did nott appear on tanks and planes.... just on some official cars bearing the nazi black, red & white flags.
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
content to be a doer
as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
rather than un-sheath our sword
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:17 |
 Slartibartfast wrote:
The cat knocked it off the dresser and destroyed it. |
No wonder. Cats had a particular hard time during WWII. The Nazis hated them because cats were more intelligent and more human than the Nazis. Most cats hisses and becomes aggressive when confronted with Nazi symbols. Back to Snow Dog's opening words. Why ban the Nazi salute ? Well, laws are made by human beings. Human beings have human feelings. Germans too have human feelings. Germans are in fact, human beings. We may disagree with this law, but taken into account how Germany looked like in the summer of 1945 and the shame all Germans are born with (two world wars & Holocaust), I can understand this law. It is the type of law mentally and emotionally scarred human beings makes. I don't agree with this law myself. But then again; I was not in Germany back in the summer of 1945. I though do have German friends in the age group 25-45 and they all think it is a good piece of legislation. So, there it goes.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:18 |
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I would have liked to have been in the room when the German government seriously suggested that making Nazi symbols illegal would prevent the rise of another Hitler-esque regime.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:20 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I would have liked to have been in the room when the German government seriously suggested that making Nazi symbols illegal would prevent the rise of another Hitler-esque regime.
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No need for a time machine. You will find the reasoning somewhere on the net. Google will help you. Read and agree/disagree.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:23 |
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I may as well waste my time reading a proof that the square root of two is rational.
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Formentera Lady
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 20 2010
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1840
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:24 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Just have to love the freedom of speech and expression they have in Germany.
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I agree with the law.
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:27 |
The irony is that by outlawing such expression, the government is echoing Fascism anyway.
I wonder if they would outlaw yellow stars. 
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:29 |
Epignosis wrote:
The irony is that by outlawing such expression, the government is echoing Fascism anyway.
I wonder if they would outlaw yellow stars.
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Exactly my point. If government can't effectively outlaw something as tangible as alcohol without complete tyranny, what chance does it have with ideas?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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toroddfuglesteg
Forum Senior Member
Retired
Joined: March 04 2008
Location: Retirement Home
Status: Offline
Points: 3658
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:30 |
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The problem is that people here is using 2011 logic on a law which was made with a 1945 logic. That's wrong. But I will leave that dead dog buried.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:32 |
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So laws that were made using erroneous logic from the past should not be criticized?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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Epignosis
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: December 30 2007
Location: Raeford, NC
Status: Offline
Points: 32553
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:34 |
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
So laws that were made using erroneous logic from the past should not be criticized?
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Laws made in 1790's logic say I get to own black people. 
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someone_else
Forum Senior Member
VIP Member
Joined: May 02 2008
Location: Going Bananas
Status: Offline
Points: 24638
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 07:49 |
toroddfuglesteg wrote:
The problem is that people here is using 2011 logic on a law which was made with a 1945 logic. That's wrong. But I will leave that dead dog buried. |
Real logic remains logic and is not affected by time. And if the Germans continue brewing beer according to the Reinheitsgebot (dating from 1516), I have no problems with it. Zum Wohl  !
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 09:20 |
James wrote:
Although getting a paint scheme accurate is hard enough as it is! But yes, you want to at least show the correct markings.
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Even some privately restored German warbirds such as FW 190s & Messerschmitt Bf 109s don't carry the swastika. Instead they paint on the Bundesflagge und Handelsflagge on the tail fins where the swastika was normally located on wartime Luftwaffe aircraft. The aircraft on static display in German museums usually carry the swastika. Back to the moron who gave the Nazi salute. Why he did it ? because he is a moron. I'd like to see him do that in front of a Royal Canadian Legion branch during Friday bingo night. He 'd get his head kicked right in.
Edited by Vibrationbaby - March 01 2011 at 09:23
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VanderGraafKommandöh
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 04 2005
Location: Malaria
Status: Offline
Points: 89372
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 09:51 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
James wrote:
Although getting a paint scheme accurate is hard enough as it is! But yes, you want to at least show the correct markings.
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Even some privately restored German warbirds such as FW 190s & Messerschmitt Bf 109s don't carry the swastika. Instead they paint on the Bundesflagge und Handelsflagge on the tail fins where the swastika was normally located on wartime Luftwaffe aircraft. The aircraft on static display in German museums usually carry the swastika.
Back to the moron who gave the Nazi salute. Why he did it ? because he is a moron. I'd like to see him do that in front of a Royal Canadian Legion branch during Friday bingo night. He 'd get his head kicked right in.
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I was reading recently that the Focke-Wulf Fw 200 Kondor that is being restored for static display in Germany is being restored in a pre-war scheme but without Hakenkreuze (even though it is a pre-war scheme, many did have the Hakenkreuze on the fin in a while circle on a red band). I think sometimes it's people outside of Germany who get weird about it, rather than Germans themselves because they think "ooh, best not offend the Germans!". Obviously Germans do get upset about it though and it's perfectly understandable why as well.
Edited by James - March 01 2011 at 09:55
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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
Status: Offline
Points: 16130
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 10:26 |
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While I understand the reasons why it is offensive to Germans (and others besides), I also find it a bit of a strange law. Criminalising a hand gesture seems like an odd thing for a modern developed society to do.
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 10:49 |
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It sounds like this was an act of ignorance just as flying a swastika flag on a flagpole in your front yard would be.
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presdoug
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 24 2010
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 8737
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 10:57 |
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I pretty well agree with the law regarding the salute.
Someone who would openly use it in public, as far as i am concerned, should have his (or her) head checked. To use it openly would be a way of psychologically (and even physically in a sense) giving legitimacy to what it is representing, and that is wrong.
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Equality 7-2521
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 10:57 |
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Lot's of people are ignorant. We don't throw them all in jail.
You also have no idea what happened. It's a generic hand motion. It could have been interpreted to be greatly different than what it was meant to be.
Also, who's to say he wasn't doing it for satirical or educational purposes?
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"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
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timothy leary
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 29 2005
Location: Lilliwaup, Wa.
Status: Offline
Points: 5319
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Posted: March 01 2011 at 11:13 |
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Are hand gestures free speech? Do they symbolically represent words? We know they do. The government has no business legislating peoples words.and when they want to start to do so they should start in house with the lies they tell in order to maintain their state of disorder. I can dislike the nazi salute, and I do but I need no laws to help me dislike it.
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Nazi Salute.
