Cream - a progressive band?

I like Cream, but I'd say they're psychedelic rock not progressive rock.  That being sad, I hate labeling music to an extent.  Psychedelic rock has progressive tendencies, and prog has psychedelic tendencies.  As far as I can see prog is for the most part the continuation of the same movement as psych rock.  

Ghostmojo wrote: In a time like right now - when nothing seems to quite mean what it used to (take R&B which used to be 1950s/60s rhythm & blues to me) does progressive actually mean what it used to?

No. absolutely not. If a younger progger were to take the H.G.Wells time machine back to the year of 1965, they could then see for themselves. When King Crimson, Genesis, ELP, Yes and Jethro Tull put a stamp on prog, the ideology itself took a wide turn. They as artists decided to take this so called plunge into a progressive writing style that really hadn't much to do with blues and maybe jazz? Well, a small portion. Doing an album between 1965 and 1968? Bands added elements from various styles of music. Canned Heat for example, would have harmonica improvising over ambient drone tone traditional Indian instruments. Or they would improvise a jazzy style of harp playing over a rapid shuffle beat. Maybe the kind of beat one would hear in the music of Zappa. While Genesis put out a record that sounded like the commercial pop group, The Bee Gees. It was common practice to add progressive elements to your music during those years. The Beatles White Album, Cream, Wheels of Fire and many others. I was only 12 years old at the time and I do remember the definition of progressive being to move foward. For musicians to move foward and not stay in the realm of 3 and 4 chord changes. Cream were one of the first to do this.

Wheels of fire has to be one of the best albums on the 60s. It's a step ahead of nearly any other rock album of  the time.

halabalushindigus wrote: I was twelve when I first saw the album cover to "Disreali Gears" and thought, this is what drugs must be like and that song "Swablar" How did they come up with a name like that? Progressive, absolutely. 3 reasons why,  Eric Clapton  Ginger Baker  Jack Bruce   oh and one more reason;   The picture has a mustache

SWLABR - The title stands for "She Walks Like A Bearded Rainbow."

As you are aware, Raff, but just to make the general point for a greater audience, one of the reasons why this site is less inclusive than some other sites is because this site includes bands/artists and not just albums.  There are many albums that could be included by bands/artists where the band or artists is excluded because of the majority of the work. 

Cream is a different case, of course, and if it were to be included, as I think it should be, it would be in Proto-Prog, not ina Prog-proper category.  Certainly, as noted, it was progressive rock, but is not considered part of the Prog-proper "genre".  I really think it has a lot in common with Prog, though. Although it's been discussed at great length, I don't know that it's ever been formally suggested to the admins (which are in charge of Proto-Prog and Prog-Related).  The Proto-Prog/ Prog-Related team works differently from other teams and suggestions require a more involved process though sometimes acts can go through quite easily and quickly.

There will always be those that consider PA too inclusive in some ways and those that consider it too exclusive in/ with others.  I'm one of the more inclusive members, and on the extreme side one might find Prog Purists who might bemoan having anything in the archives that is not usually considered part of the Prog proper genre (and would like to remove various categories from the site including Proto-Prog and Prog-Related but also other categories and bands/ artists listed under the Prog umbrella).

Marty McFly wrote: Or even Eric Clapton, right ? :-D or Yardbirds :-) I wouldn't mind having them here, even they're what, blues ? Rock ?

Though I like Derek and the Dominos, and "Layla" has a kind of progginess about it, from what I know, I wouldn't support Clapton's entry into Prog-Related.  I believe that the The Yardbirds (for Proto-Prog) would have more merit (I'd have revisit the music) than a Clapton addition (for Prog-Related) -- from what I know, but I haven't listened to either much in many years (neither projects had the same effect on me as Cream did).

I didn't think you were being that serious -- far too simplistic, and flawed, for someone of your experience.  The thing is, as I think I made clear on the first page of this thread, I don't consider Cream to have been a "typical" rock  (yes I notice the quotes around typical) band, nor was it just a blues rock/ jam band.  There was a fusion of styles incorporated (obviously including psych) and there is contrast. 

And I also don't think it's about being good as making music that you think fits (for Proto-Prog one must consider the music itself and the historical context). I believe that Cream fits the Proto-Prog criteria.  As I've often said, I think it's perfectly reasonable to make associations and make an if x is then why not y case provided that the musical comparisons (as opposed to say, shared musicians) are valid/ relevant and sufficient for suggestion purposes. Too often for my tastes I have seen X is not in so Y should not be in either or fearmongering if X is included then there will be calls for Y -- a la surely we don't want Y in so we should be very wary about letting X in.  Each case must also be evaluated on its own merits, and a similar case must also be evaluated on its own merits even if some precedents are set.  I don't care about adding (or supporting) bands so I can review them as I'm not a reviewer. I believe in supporting bands if I think they belong. 

Cream isn't in.  While I think it's fair to discuss similar cases already in as a supplement to making a case, I think making the case against them by throwing out names like Clapton solo and the Yardbirds is weak (to use those as examples even if you weren't being that serious).  Let's focus on Cream itself, both the music and its historical place, and worry about those later (I see the cases as being quite different, and I suppose that some might have said that if Led Zep was added, what next, the Yardbirds?).  You might want to talk about bands already in based in blues-rock and say why their cases are stronger than Cream's.

That's my two cents, anyway, Marty. Hope my cents make some sense.

EDIT: Incidentally, have you listened to both Wheels of Fire and Disraeli Gears?


Edited by Logan - December 29 2009 at 21:41

jammun wrote: I attempted to make a case for the Yardbirds (for proto-) a while back, and that achieved about as much liftoff as a lead zeppelin.  I imagine Cream will end up in that same failed-to-achieve-liftoff heap.

Ah, but the Cream always rises to the top.

jammun wrote: Logan wrote: jammun wrote: I attempted to make a case for the Yardbirds (for proto-) a while back, and that achieved about as much liftoff as a lead zeppelin.  I imagine Cream will end up in that same failed-to-achieve-liftoff heap.    Ah, but the Cream always rises to the top. Let's hope it's not lead cream.

Or even iced Cream as in "Oh my god, they iced Creamy! You b*****ds!"