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Blacksword
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 22 2004
Location: England
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Points: 16130
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 06:07 |
I apologise for trying to simplify things, but ivan why should any religous viewpoint be expressed in a biology class??
Is science routinely taught in religous studies????
What is the actual harm in teaching both in their right classroom envioronments??
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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
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Points: 5187
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 06:18 |
It is perfectly reasonable (if not desirable) that the Creationist theory of life be taught in class, but only in religious education. As for the so-called holes in Evolutionary theory can anyone explain to me why the bones of human beings are not found alongside dinosaur bones. For that matter can anyone explain how humans could have co-existed with dinosaurs? Why are dinosaurs never mentioned in the Bible?
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sigod
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 17 2004
Location: London
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 06:51 |
Glass-Prison wrote:
I don't think the public schools should teach any theory that is not based in fact... it is merely teaching our children to accept faith as a reasonable method of logical deduction. |
That's a grey area Glass, what about Philosophy? Religious education has its place if only to teach that there is more than one faith in the world and its link to the social conditioning/engineering of our global society. Remember that many religions founded the first education systems in the early days of civilisation.
That said, this instance is so out or order it's almost laughable. IMO, fundamentalism should always be resisted, be it religious, political or indeed, scientific.
Edited by sigod
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I must remind the right honourable gentleman that a monologue is not a decision.
- Clement Atlee, on Winston Churchill
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 11:17 |
I apologise for trying to simplify things, but ivan why should any religous viewpoint be expressed in a biology class?? |
I know evolution is a scientific theory that according to my view is mostly accurate, but that's not the fact, Crationoism is also a theory that is accepted by the majority of USA citizens, so they could mention it, explain if it's posible or not and teach the children why they believe evolution is more accurate, only that.
There are a lot of theories about how man reached America, we all know that the only one that has solid bases is the one of Behring diring the Glaciar Age, but Americanism is also taught even if we all know it's impossible and that Florentino Ameghino mixed some human and ape bones to create the "homo americanis".
If they teach that fake, why shouldn't they teach Creationism?
Iván
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 12:42 |
arcer wrote:
As an alternative, the statement mentions
“intelligent design”, an updated form of creationism which argues that
life on earth is too complex to have developed at random. |
Do these people not understand what random means?!
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 12:50 |
Reed Lover wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable (if not desirable) that the Creationist theory of life be taught in class, but only in religious education. As for the so-called holes in Evolutionary theory can anyone explain to me why the bones of human beings are not found alongside dinosaur bones. |
They are looking in the wrong place, Reed. They should be looking for human bones INSIDE the dino bones. 
Edited by Garion81
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 12:50 |
gdub411 wrote:
 ...good
call. It isn't right to teach children one without the other. It
automatically will legitimize the Theory of Evolution since Creationism
isn't taught in public schools. People should be able to hear both ends
of the argument and decide which one they prefer.
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But... Creationism has no basis in scientific theory, and thus it's
absurd to teach in a science lesson. You can make porridge from oats,
but you wouldn't suggest teaching it in maths. I'm all for teaching it
in RE (but isn't stopping at Creationism unfair? doesn't it
automatiacally legitimise Christianity over any other religion?)
gdub411 wrote:
I think Theory is the key word here. Neither one is based on hard evidence and one could poke holes in either one.
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Evolution is based on hard evidence. I'm not saying that we are here
because of evolution (I have an open mind on the matter), but evolution
does exist. We can observe it
in bacteria. It can be proved (insofar as anything can be proved) that
evolution occurs. Whether or not it was how we got to where we are
today is definitely less certain, but we find remains of creatures
similar but not the same as us from thousands of years ago, and yet no
creatures the same as us. This evidence certainly points to it.
Obviously if there is a God (I'm not saying there isn't), all this
evidence is pointless, because He is outside the framework (if that
makes any sense to anybody). Moreover, evolution is
the accepted theory. Certainly up to school level, I was taught very
little in the way of history of science. The rights and wrongs of that
can be endlessly debated, but it seems odd to make an exception for
evolution.
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 12:52 |
Reed Lover wrote:
As for the so-called holes in Evolutionary
theory can anyone explain to me why the bones of human beings are not
found alongside dinosaur bones. For that matter can anyone explain how
humans could have co-existed with dinosaurs? Why are dinosaurs never mentioned in the Bible? |
It's pointless to look at religion from a scientific point of view. The
laws of science have to operate within any God, not the other way round!
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goose
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 20 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 4097
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 12:55 |
arcer wrote:
“Religion has nothing to do with intelligent
design,” said Carl Jarboe, a former chemistry professor and school
board supporter. “I am alleging there is not one piece of scientific
evidence that supports evolution."
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What a load of crap! As I said earlier, one can observe evolution
happening as bacteria become resistant to anti-biotics. Or do they just
tell each other how to deal with it? Maybe we're just inferior to
bacteria?
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Velvetclown
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 8548
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 13:08 |
Edited by Velvetclown
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 14:14 |
Reed Lover wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable (if not desirable) that the Creationist theory of life be taught in class, but only in religious education. As for the so-called holes in Evolutionary theory can anyone explain to me why the bones of human beings are not found alongside dinosaur bones. For that matter can anyone explain how humans could have co-existed with dinosaurs? Why are dinosaurs never mentioned in the Bible?
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Actually Reed...it is a stretch...but the Bible does mention leviathons in the Book of Job. The word dinosaur doesn't exist during the writing of The Bible. Perhaps the mentioning of leviathons is actually a reference toward dinosaurs.
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 14:17 |
gdub411 wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable (if not desirable) that the Creationist theory of life be taught in class, but only in religious education. As for the so-called holes in Evolutionary theory can anyone explain to me why the bones of human beings are not found alongside dinosaur bones. For that matter can anyone explain how humans could have co-existed with dinosaurs? Why are dinosaurs never mentioned in the Bible?
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Actually Reed...it is a stretch...but the Bible does mention leviathons in the Book of Job. The word dinosaur doesn't exist during the writing of The Bible. Perhaps the mentioning of leviathons is actually a reference toward dinosaurs.
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So why havent human bones been found near dinosaur's. After all we'd just be a meal to them.......
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 14:23 |
Reed Lover wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable (if not desirable) that the Creationist theory of life be taught in class, but only in religious education. As for the so-called holes in Evolutionary theory can anyone explain to me why the bones of human beings are not found alongside dinosaur bones. For that matter can anyone explain how humans could have co-existed with dinosaurs? Why are dinosaurs never mentioned in the Bible?
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Actually Reed...it is a stretch...but the Bible does mention leviathons in the Book of Job. The word dinosaur doesn't exist during the writing of The Bible. Perhaps the mentioning of leviathons is actually a reference toward dinosaurs.
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So why havent human bones been found near dinosaur's. After all we'd just be a meal to them.......
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Maybe....being intelligent creatures and them being really stupid we ran and hid when the meat eaters came around and we lived in harmony with the plant eaters. Perhaps we herded them....I don't know.
Their bones are bigger so it took a longer time for them to erode.
Maybe dinosaurs didn't live in Africa.....too hot for them....eh?
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 14:28 |
goose wrote:
[QUOTE=gdub411]
 ...good call. It isn't right to teach children one without the other. It automatically will legitimize the Theory of Evolution since Creationism isn't taught in public schools. People should be able to hear both ends of the argument and decide which one they prefer.
| But... Creationism has no basis in scientific theory, and thus it's absurd to teach in a science lesson. You can make porridge from oats, but you wouldn't suggest teaching it in maths. I'm all for teaching it in RE (but isn't stopping at Creationism unfair? doesn't it automatiacally legitimise Christianity over any other religion?)
As was said at the top of this thread, there are scientists and teachers who are teaching the Theory of Creation using facts. I have seen their arguments and theories and they're more convincing than you think. They also debunc much of what The Theory of Evolution says. I am not saying one is better than the other, but scientifically they both lay their arguments out well enough. It should be up to the students to decide which one fits them.
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Reed Lover
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 16 2004
Location: Sao Tome and Pr
Status: Offline
Points: 5187
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 14:30 |
gdub411 wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
gdub411 wrote:
Reed Lover wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable (if not desirable) that the Creationist theory of life be taught in class, but only in religious education. As for the so-called holes in Evolutionary theory can anyone explain to me why the bones of human beings are not found alongside dinosaur bones. For that matter can anyone explain how humans could have co-existed with dinosaurs? Why are dinosaurs never mentioned in the Bible?
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Actually Reed...it is a stretch...but the Bible does mention leviathons in the Book of Job. The word dinosaur doesn't exist during the writing of The Bible. Perhaps the mentioning of leviathons is actually a reference toward dinosaurs.
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So why havent human bones been found near dinosaur's. After all we'd just be a meal to them.......
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Maybe....being intelligent creatures and them being really stupid we ran and hid when the meat eaters came around and we lived in harmony with the plant eaters. Perhaps we herded them....I don't know.
Their bones are bigger so it took a longer time for them to erode.
Maybe dinosaurs didn't live in Africa.....too hot for them....eh?
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Anal sex must really be bad for your cognitive powers!
" I'm gonna knock some sense out of you boy!" I want you to squeeel like a piggy
Edited by Reed Lover
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gdub411
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 24 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3484
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 14:51 |
I still stick with my theory of the leviathons in the Book of Job being dinosaurs gosh darn it.
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James Lee
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 3525
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 17:51 |
Velvetclown wrote:
You found God? If nobody claims him in 30 days, he's yours! |
LOL! 
just to be safe, post some pictures around the neighborhood. I'd hate to deprive someone of a beloved family deity.
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James Lee
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Honorary Collaborator
Joined: June 05 2004
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Points: 3525
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 17:53 |
#11: Thou Shalt not Use Carbon Dating
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
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Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 18:42 |
James Lee wrote:
Whatever the merits of the individual theories, public schools are an instituation funded by various sources, and those sources have the option of dictating curriculum or removing their support. In many cases, the funding comes from the taxpayers...and if a majority of the taxpayers in a given region believe that a giant purple aardvark belched out the world, then the schools may be told to teach that. That's democracy...
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Damn it James! I told you to keep what I believed to yourself! Now everyone knows!
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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Arioch
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 21 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 169
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Posted: January 13 2005 at 23:29 |
James Lee wrote:
#11: Thou Shalt not Use Carbon Dating |
Carbon dating has proven to be inaccurate on many occasions.
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Knight of the Swords
Lord of Entropy
Duke of Chaos
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