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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2006 at 17:19

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Megadeth are  more "Prog" than Death, it's true...

Megadeth are progressive, but not prog.
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TheProgtologist View Drop Down
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2006 at 20:58
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Megadeth are  more "Prog" than Death, it's true...

Megadeth are progressive, but not prog.

I agree.I think their album Rust in Peace is their most progressive sounding.


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Certif1ed View Drop Down
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 02:50
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Megadeth are  more "Prog" than Death, it's true...

Megadeth are progressive, but not prog.

I agree.I think their album Rust in Peace is their most progressive sounding.

When in Rome...

Death are also arguably progressive - but deathinately not prog.

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 02:59

^ try to define the difference between progressive and prog - but in less than 50 words. I can't ... and I'm no longer trying to.
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Certif1ed View Drop Down
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 03:01
If you can't, then why are you disputing what I'm saying...
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 03:08

^ I think that you may have a point in saying that Death are not prog, but I'm sure that they were very progressive on their later albums. The problem is that not all progressive albums are candidates for the inclusion in the archives, and I'm not yet sure about the criteria.

The ongoing fights about what's prog and what isn't were one of the reasons why I started my own website - where any genre is welcome, and people can put any song in any genre they like.

So for a band like Megadeth people are free to label them "Thrash Metal" and rate them as very progressive, or label them "Prog Metal".



Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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Points: 4986 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 08:05
Rust in Peace is one of my favorites in any genre. But no , Megadeth don't belong here !
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Points: 976 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 16:55
Megadeth prog? Please, there are thousands of bands more prog than Megadeth to be included.
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TheProgtologist View Drop Down
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 17:22
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Megadeth are  more "Prog" than Death, it's true...

Megadeth are progressive, but not prog.

I agree.I think their album Rust in Peace is their most progressive sounding.

When in Rome...

Death are also arguably progressive - but deathinately not prog.

I am not agreeing with Mike just to agree with him.

I am actually capable of independent thought.


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Guzzman View Drop Down
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Points: 3563 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 18:42
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Guzzman Guzzman wrote:


No way!!
What next? Anthrax? Modern Talking? Florence Foster Jenkins?
Megadeath have their place in Heavy Metal history, but they don't belong in the Archives.

At least spell their name correctly, please.

[/QUOTE]

That's 1-0 for you , but even without the second a they don't belong here
"We've got to get in to get out"
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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2006 at 18:51

Ok, fair enough. I think that the members of the prog metal team will make the right decision.

But still I think that some Metallica albums are more progressive than many prog metal albums in the archives. If Metallica aren't accepted even as prog related, I fear that it might not be because of the music, but because of their reputation.

But IMHO St. Anger was nowhere near as embarrasing as some of the albums Phil made ...

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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 02:45
Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by TheProgtologist TheProgtologist wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Megadeth are  more "Prog" than Death, it's true...

Megadeth are progressive, but not prog.

I agree.I think their album Rust in Peace is their most progressive sounding.

When in Rome...

Death are also arguably progressive - but deathinately not prog.

I am not agreeing with Mike just to agree with him.

I am actually capable of independent thought.

That wasn't the implication at all

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 03:15
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Death are also arguably progressive - but deathinately not prog.

The question is really: Why is it that some metal/rock based bands are progressive, but not prog? Does that make any sense - is there a set of criteria that can be used to make that determination? 
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 04:39
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Death are also arguably progressive - but deathinately not prog.

The question is really: Why is it that some metal/rock based bands are progressive, but not prog? Does that make any sense - is there a set of criteria that can be used to make that determination? 

Yes - I think so.

With Prog Rock, at least, with the original "classic" Prog bands, you can use the word Progressive in a literal and complete sense - and that is the key.

I've been trying to find common links between the classic bands, and really, it's obvious when you think about it;

They were all progressive - both lyrically and in all 5 elements of music.

That's just 2 essential criteria (or 6, technically speaking) - and it works!

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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 05:04
^ But a band like Wobbler is Prog Rock, although they are not progressive at all.
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TheProgtologist View Drop Down
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Points: 27802 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 08:10

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ But a band like Wobbler is Prog Rock, although they are not progressive at all.

Yes....if anything they are RE-gressive.


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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 08:41

^that means that Prog Rock includes non-progressive music.

That's why on my website I separate the rating of the progressiveness from the genre assignment. I would rate the progressiveness of the Wobbler epics 2 to 3/10, and assign them to the Symphonic Prog Rock genre. Maybe I'll even create a genre "Retro Symphonic Prog Rock" for these bands ...

And getting back to the topic (Megadeth): I would assign them to the Thrash Metal genre, but rate some of their songs' progressiveness as high as 7/10.

Hmm ... thinking about it, the bands which would have a high progressiveness rating on some albums, but still be assigned to non-prog genres seem to be those that are assigned to prog-related in the archives. 



Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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Certif1ed View Drop Down
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Points: 7559 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 16:49

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ But a band like Wobbler is Prog Rock, although they are not progressive at all.

But are they Prog Rock, though?

How can they be, if they're not progressive at all?

Talk about a contradiction in terms.

(I've never heard Wobbler, I'm asking questions...).

Can you think of another band that are Prog without being progressive?

 

Back to Megadeth, they're Prog-Related simply because of the obvious close relationship with Metallica.

Metallica changed metal forever - now that's progressive. They're the ultimate Prog metal band, that much seems obvious.

 

 



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MikeEnRegalia View Drop Down
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Points: 21596 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 17:13
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:

^ But a band like Wobbler is Prog Rock, although they are not progressive at all.

But are they Prog Rock, though?

How can they be, if they're not progressive at all?

Talk about a contradiction in terms.

(I've never heard Wobbler, I'm asking questions...).

Can you think of another band that are Prog without being progressive?

I think that "Prog Rock" is a genre, not more. A genre is determined by its key bands, and other bands which make similar music are put in the same genre. So if a band copies another band's style - or simply records music that is very similar to that of the original bands to show their appreciation for that style (which is what Wobbler do - listen to nearly half an hour of their music at  http://www.wobblermusic.com/music/) - then they might share the same genre, even if the original bands were very original, inventive and progressive, and the band in question is derivative and not adding many own ideas.

The essence of what I'm trying to say is that genres are about the music, not the musicians or their motivation.

Here are some examples of bands which I would label prog, but not progressive:
Wobbler, Anglagard, Dream Theater clones like Mind Key and Circus Maximus

And some bands which I would not label prog, but which are very progressive:
Nevermore, Bumblefoot, Metallica, Death Angel (on Act III)

 
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Points: 2 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2006 at 17:40

i don't really understand.. Metallica?!? Progressive?! that's an absolute Contradiction, they boring 10 minutes riffs are the worst thing in the world and every song is just the same, where is the virtuosity and the Classical Melodical Symphonic Inspiration?

Metallica is nor progressive

But megadeth made their last album progressive, the system has failed, I heard a lot of synthetizer working, and better riffs with better melodies, Megadeth is not pa progressive metal band, but they have some prog songs

a real prog metal band is dream theater... everything before werent prog metal, queensryche maybe, but fates warning not.. metallica less...

x_X
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