Forum Home Forum Home > Site News, Newbies, Help and Improvements > Help us improve the site
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Retro Prog ?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Retro Prog ?

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>
Author
Message
Gerinski View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
Status: Offline
Points: 5154
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerinski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2020 at 10:32
I have the impression that most of what we call retro-prog is actually retro-symphonic prog. Not all but most of it.
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35732
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2020 at 10:40
^^ If we could multi-tag albums, then for sure I’d like retro as on of them, but as we can only categorise acts, I think the categories we have cover those acts descriptively enough. The bios and reviews at least can mention the retro qualities. I love lots of retro ones, but especially those that draw on retro Kosmische/ Krautrock (and lounge) and some of a retro folky vein. Some of those are in PA, many are not.
Back to Top
zakka View Drop Down
Forum Newbie
Forum Newbie


Joined: November 24 2020
Location: Russia
Status: Offline
Points: 2
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zakka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2020 at 14:20
I agree, overloading with categories is not what I wanted ;0) 
How about just sharing our findings of little-known retro prog records in this forum thread? 
For exumple, (in addition to Wobbler, Ring Van Möbius or All Traps On Earth) such artists/albums: 
Spock's Beard - The Light 1995
The Flower Kings - The Sum Of No Evil 2007
Magic Pie - The Suffering Joy 2011
Moon Safari - Blomljud 2008
Big Big Train - English Electric Part One 2012
Do you think these records are true spirited by prog 70s?
Back to Top
Logan View Drop Down
Forum & Site Admin Group
Forum & Site Admin Group
Avatar
Site Admin

Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Status: Offline
Points: 35732
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2020 at 14:41
Yep, those all have retro-Prog stylings.  The Flower Kings is famous for its retro qualities.  The Tangent also has retro qualities, as does Wobbler etc.

Mentioned it earlier, but I love Kosmischer Laufer which not only tries to sound like it was made in the 70s and early 80s, but pretends to be of the past. I did a topic on Retro-Music Pretending to be of the Past

Constantine is another Retro-Prog one I like.  I used to dislike retro-prog, but I've come to appreciate a tonne of retro music or music that has qualities of the past such as Stereolab (not in PA but has a Prog relation) which draws on Krautrock groups like Can and Neu as well as 60s lounge music / on music such as Serge Gainsbourg and Alain Goraguer....

I tend not to like many of the retro-Symph ones. There are various excellent one for my tastes which draw on classic Krautrock, Progressive Electronic (many I know of the Berlin School ilk), retro Prog folk, retro Psych Prog and retro Canterbury Sound music.
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2020 at 14:47
When someone comes up with some good METRO PROG then i'll be more interested Big smile

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
suitkees View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: July 19 2020
Location: France
Status: Offline
Points: 9050
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote suitkees Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2020 at 14:58
^ Velvet Underground ? Ermm

The razamataz is a pain in the bum
Back to Top
AFlowerKingCrimson View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 02 2016
Location: Philly burbs
Status: Offline
Points: 18243
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2020 at 15:42
No, there's already too many subgenres on here. Wobbler, All Traps on eath, RVM, Anekdoten, Anglagard, etc can all fall under symph prog imo.
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 25 2020 at 16:29
Originally posted by suitkees suitkees wrote:

^ Velvet Underground ? Ermm


more like Velveeta Underground LOL

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
Hrychu View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: November 03 2013
Location: poland?
Status: Offline
Points: 5346
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 26 2020 at 07:55
Mouth - Vortex
Fernando Perdomo - Out to Sea 2
Great retro sounding albums. I highly recommend them.
“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2024 at 19:18
Instead of starting a new thread. I guess this might as well be where i ask this.

When exactly did retro prog start? Did it start in the 90s with bands like The Flower Kings and Anglagard?

Or more like the 2000s with bands like Viima, Diagonal, Astra and Willowglass?

I guess one could even argue it started in the 70s with bands like Starcastle.

Anyways, what are some ideas about early retro prog bands?

Throw some names at me ;)



Wh(function(){if (!document.body) return;var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'8692ccf17ed7969f',t:'MTcxMTI0MjgyNi41NzAwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
King Crimson776 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Crimson776 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2024 at 02:21
Originally posted by Gerinski Gerinski wrote:

I have the impression that most of what we call retro-prog is actually retro-symphonic prog. Not all but most of it.

There seems to be a double standard where modern Symphonic bands are usually the ones labelled "retro" while other styles are not given this label despite not being very original either.

I think a lot of the strongest modern prog is Symphonic, and it is no less original than much of the other modern prog (or modern music in general). Basically all genres have been done countless times, so there really isn't much that is stunningly original these days. It's more important to create an interesting composition than to simply be original for its own sake.


Edited by King Crimson776 - March 25 2024 at 02:50
Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 43509
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2024 at 03:01
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I guess one could even argue it started in the 70s with bands like Starcastle.

I'm not trying to start any kind of argument, but whoever argues this is just wrong. LOL
Just as wrong as those who say The Who invented death metal or that Genesis' ATOTT is a neo-prog album. 


Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 43509
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2024 at 03:02
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

When exactly did retro prog start? Did it start in the 90s with bands like The Flower Kings and Anglagard?

yes, I think it started with these bands. Tongue
Back to Top
TenYearsAfter View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: February 01 2018
Location: Aruba
Status: Offline
Points: 345
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TenYearsAfter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2024 at 04:32
In the early Nineties the Second Skandinavian Prog Movement started, speerheaded by Anglagard, Anekdoten en Landberk, then the term Retro Prog was invented, due to their blend of own musical ideas and obvious hints from Yes and King Crimson, often vintage keyboard drenched (isn't that retro?!).

Edited by TenYearsAfter - March 25 2024 at 04:34
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2024 at 07:01
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

I guess one could even argue it started in the 70s with bands like Starcastle.

I'm not trying to start any kind of argument, but whoever argues this is just wrong. LOL
Just as wrong as those who say The Who invented death metal or that Genesis' ATOTT is a neo-prog album. 




I wouldn't consider Starcastle retro prog either but the reason i could see it as legit is simply because it was copying a style of Yes after Yes gave up that sound. For the term retro to be valid, personally i would say you need a decade or two to elapse.

So late 70s bands would be simply clone bands then.


(function(){if (!document.body) return;var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'869f145cdee4cf4d',t:'MTcxMTM3MTU4MS4wMzkwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
Cosmiclawnmower View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: August 09 2010
Location: West Country,UK
Status: Offline
Points: 3627
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2024 at 16:15
The Mighty Boosh Looking Backwards song - YouTube

''Elements of the past, elements of the future, combining to make something not quite as good as either''

Back to Top
richardh View Drop Down
Prog Reviewer
Prog Reviewer
Avatar

Joined: February 18 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 27953
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2024 at 17:40
'Retro Prog' is such a loaded term and could alienate many artists. Why would we even want to consider the idea? It's totally snobbish and elitist nonsense. However seperating bands on the basis of style is perfectly sensible.
Neo Prog is the term that most prog bands don't like being called. However Logan offered a perfect description of what it is and I'm fine with that. There is no inherent put down in that term. Arguably all 'prog' is retro. That term was used and designed as a put down for the likes of ELP and Yes around the time of punk. 'Retro prog' is therefore digging the knife in Smile
If hypothetically 'Retro Prog' was a thing then it was definitely started by Par Lindh Project and the Scandi bands in the 90's. However they still had their own thing and put a lot more folk stylings and a bit of RIO into the mix to make it interesting. It was never a straight copy and it has never been a clone (another ridiculous and useless term that gets banded around) . We could just choose to grow up and listen to music for what it is but I don't hold out much hope on that!
Back to Top
Cristi View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
Crossover / Prog Metal Teams

Joined: July 27 2006
Location: wonderland
Status: Online
Points: 43509
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2024 at 01:32
Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

'Retro Prog' is such a loaded term and could alienate many artists. Why would we even want to consider the idea? It's totally snobbish and elitist nonsense. However seperating bands on the basis of style is perfectly sensible.
Neo Prog is the term that most prog bands don't like being called. However Logan offered a perfect description of what it is and I'm fine with that. There is no inherent put down in that term. Arguably all 'prog' is retro. That term was used and designed as a put down for the likes of ELP and Yes around the time of punk. 'Retro prog' is therefore digging the knife in Smile
If hypothetically 'Retro Prog' was a thing then it was definitely started by Par Lindh Project and the Scandi bands in the 90's. However they still had their own thing and put a lot more folk stylings and a bit of RIO into the mix to make it interesting. It was never a straight copy and it has never been a clone (another ridiculous and useless term that gets banded around) . We could just choose to grow up and listen to music for what it is but I don't hold out much hope on that!

Great post. Thumbs Up

I guess the term has become a bit derogatory, although I've seen people use it in a positive connotation, just meaning an artist that tries to recreate 70s style music. I don't mind this at all, I have discovered bands I enjoyed a lot, some didn't do much for me. 

The "retro" style exists in other music genres as well, in rock and metal and even pop (synth pop seems to have made a comeback). 
The metal scene has witnessed the rise of traditional heavy metal bands, the scene has even got a name - NWOTHM, New Wave of Traditional Heavy Metal. LOL 
The stoner rock and metal scene is 70s Black Sabbath worship and other late 60s & 70s blues-rock, heavy psyche and hard rock worship. 
I noticed there is an AOR/melodic hard rock revival in Sweden, don't know what's going on there. LOL Again, I'm fine with that. 
OSDM is a thing, "old school death metal", bands trying to sound like the early death metal/90s death metal. And I'm sure there's more. Smile




Edited by Cristi - March 26 2024 at 03:29
Back to Top
mathman0806 View Drop Down
Forum Senior Member
Forum Senior Member
Avatar

Joined: June 06 2014
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 6396
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2024 at 03:04
Agree with both of the above. I think the term "retro" has been used to describe any music that has the same vibe as mudic from a previous era. I think I saw that in the 90s with Black Crowes.

It doesn't have to be negative, but some take it that way. It's individual taste I suppose. For a while, I was listening a lot to bands that had a retro 70s hard rock sound.

At some point, it changes from saying "sounds like" to "retro". In another 10 years, we'll have bands sounding like Porcupine Tree that will be called retro 2000s prog.
Back to Top
siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
Special Collaborator
Special Collaborator
Avatar
PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

Joined: October 05 2013
Location: SFcaUsA
Status: Offline
Points: 15242
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2024 at 06:48
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

'Retro Prog' is such a loaded term and could alienate many artists. Why would we even want to consider the idea? It's totally snobbish and elitist nonsense. However seperating bands on the basis of style is perfectly sensible.
Neo Prog is the term that most prog bands don't like being called. However Logan offered a perfect description of what it is and I'm fine with that. There is no inherent put down in that term. Arguably all 'prog' is retro. That term was used and designed as a put down for the likes of ELP and Yes around the time of punk. 'Retro prog' is therefore digging the knife in Smile
If hypothetically 'Retro Prog' was a thing then it was definitely started by Par Lindh Project and the Scandi bands in the 90's. However they still had their own thing and put a lot more folk stylings and a bit of RIO into the mix to make it interesting. It was never a straight copy and it has never been a clone (another ridiculous and useless term that gets banded around) . We could just choose to grow up and listen to music for what it is but I don't hold out much hope on that!

Great post. Thumbs Up

I guess the term has become a bit derogatory, although I've seen people use it in a positive connotation, just meaning an artist that tries to recreate 70s style music. I don't mind this at all, I have discovered bands I enjoyed a lot, some didn't do much for me. 

The "retro" style exists in other music genres as well, in rock and metal and even pop (synth pop seems to have made a comeback). 
The metal scene has witnessed the rise of traditional heavy metal bands, the scene has even got a name - NWOTHM, New Wave of Traditional Heavy Metal. LOL 
The stoner rock and metal scene is 70s Black Sabbath worship and other late 60s & 70s blues-rock, heavy psyche and hard rock worship. 
I noticed there is an AOR/melodic hard rock revival in Sweden, don't know what's going on there. LOL Again, I'm fine with that. 
OSDM is a thing, "old school death metal", bands trying to sound like the early death metal/90s death metal. And I'm sure there's more. Smile



All good points. I don't look as the term "retro" as derogatory in the least. It simply refers to artists that use analog equipment and try to emulate a style that would've fit in to the classic prog era.

As far as other genres of music, it seems the word revival is more common as in swing revival, post-punk revival, surf rock revival etc. But revival and retro aren't exactly synonymous  of course as a repopularization of a style doesn't mean it has to sound authentically retro. I haven't heard the metal revival tag yet although there are clearly modern bands that try to emulate old school death metal, 80s heavy metal etc.

Also "retro" doesn't mean clone. Wobbler is clearly retro in the fact it sounds like classic 70s prog but clearly is unique and although the Yes influences are obvious, doesn't sound like Yes.

True that it shouldn't be a descriptor term for albums but it is a useful category for those who either want to explore these artists or in many cases NOT.




(function(){if (!document.body) return;var js = "window['__CF$cv$params']={r:'86a739943b7167f5',t:'MTcxMTQ1Njk5MS40NjIwMDA='};_cpo=document.createElement('script');_cpo.nonce='',_cpo.src='/cdn-cgi/challenge-platform/scripts/jsd/main.js',document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_cpo);";var _0xh = document.createElement('iframe');_0xh.height = 1;_0xh.width = 1;_0xh.style.position = 'absolute';_0xh.style.top = 0;_0xh.style.left = 0;_0xh.style.border = 'none';_0xh.style.visibility = 'hidden';document.body.appendChild(_0xh);function handler() {var _0xi = _0xh.contentDocument || _0xh.contentWindow.document;if (_0xi) {var _0xj = _0xi.createElement('script');_0xj.innerHTML = js;_0xi.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(_0xj);}}if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {handler();} else if (window.addEventListener) {document.addEventListener('DOMContentLoaded', handler);} else {var prev = document.onreadystatechange || function () {};document.onreadystatechange = function (e) {prev(e);if (document.readyState !== 'loading') {document.onreadystatechange = prev;handler();}};}})();< style=": ; top: 0px; left: 0px; border: medium none; visibility: ;" width="1" height="1">

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.230 seconds.
Donate monthly and keep PA fast-loading and ad-free forever.