Russia/Ukraine tensions - Any concern? - Progressive Rock Music Forum

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Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 12:31

A lot of Europeans have already heard this soundtrack, but here are the last words of a defiant Ukrainian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2iVHUMZhg

Edited by Easy Money - February 27 2022 at 12:32

SteveG

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 12:44

Easy Money wrote:

A lot of Europeans have already heard this soundtrack, but here are the last words of a defiant Ukrainian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2iVHUMZhg

Who said Western culture has nothing to offer people in the East?

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MortSahlFan View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 14:58

In this century alone, the US lied (WMDs, ties to al-kraKKKa, etc) and got us involved in

-Iraq

-Syria

-Yemen

-Afghanistan

-Somalia

-Libya

etc

I'm glad Biden hasn't done what some suggest (dropping more bombs)... But I didn't care for Biden telling us Americans that things are going to get harder. Suddenly, people who I thought were more aligned are now gung-ho militarists who keep saying how we need to send MORE money, because they don't really care about their fellow citizen who need these billions going to Ukraine instead. They probably think, "They're poor, f**k em, they probably voted for the guy I hate".

But Trump, the only President in my lifetime who didn't start a new war is the maniac? I'm not saying Putin is a great guy, but some just echo bullsh*t they heard from their favorite propaganda outlet. Biden voted for every single war, why isn't he considered a bloodthirsty motherf**ker? I won't even get to the Crime Bill, NAFTA, repeal of Glass-Steagull, and other right-winged behavior, because many "minds" are already made up. It's so easy how many are duped by mannerisms and phony speeches as opposed to actual action.

The following video is pretty good, except the shilling for Tulsi Gabbard, who I knew was a fraud in 2016 when I worked for Bernie Sanders, who is now resorting to saying sh*t he doesn't believe in after telling it straight for decades.

https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 16:35

^ Since the 1950s the biggest war monger in the world has been the USA. The citizens of this country do what they can stop this, at the ballot box or in protests or even covert action, but none of that information is much help to what the people in Ukraine are going through right now.

As far as what is going on in Eastern Europe, I get most of my information from people who live there. Not only in Ukraine, but also neighboring countries who know what its like to deal with Russian military aggression.

Edited by Easy Money - February 27 2022 at 16:36

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 17:14

Right now my friend's uncle, who lives in Poland, is trying to find out what happened to relatives in Kyiv Ukraine, who they have lost contact with.
Other relatives in Ukraine are still doing okay.

NotAProghead View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 17:49

Didn't want to post in this thread.

But probably this Mail Online article wriiten by British journalist would allow to look from a different angle.

Some quotes:

We have pointlessly made an enemy of Russia

We have been utter fools. We have treated Russia with amazing stupidity. Now we pay the price for that. We had the chance to make her an ally, friend and partner. Instead we turned her into an enemy by insulting a great and proud country with greed, unearned superiority cynicism, contempt and mistrust.

It is my unflinching view, amid all the current anti-Putin hysteria, that the leaders of the West have made the crisis we now face today out of thin air . ..... In hints, in pleas, in public speeches and private approaches, Russia has begged us for years to show it the most basic respect. Our response has been to react with mistrust and abuse, and with blatant attempts to worsen the situation in Ukraine and Georgia, two incredibly dangerous flashpoints where real war might all too easily begin. Having been there when everything was possible, that Moscow summer’’s day in 1991, I cannot forgive or forget this great missed opportunity to bring Russia into the free and lawful world. And I think the peoples of the West should think very carefully before they follow the path to a new and bitter division of Europe. It is wholly avoidable. It gains us nothing. And it might lose us everything.

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 17:58

^ There is a good deal of truth to that post, but if you look at what is going on today, putin has done much to undermine any sympathy he could have deserved before what he is doing now.
The Ukrainian people do not deserve all this death and destruction.

NotAProghead View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:13

^ I think Ukranian people became victims of geopolitical games.

US forced Mr Putin to make the choice between disgrace and war. He chose the 2nd option because, as someone said, if you choose disgrace you’ll get war as well.

It looks like Ukraine’s main mission since 2014 (actually even earlier), according to US politicians, was to be a constant Russia’s headache, a peaceful and amicable solution for Ukraine was never a plan.

Now US are the only winner (at least in a short-term perspective), Russia is thrown out of European gas- and other markets, sanctioned and fights with Ukraine, European countries support sanctions, "cutting branhces they sit on".

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

SteveG

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:15

Well said John. Putin is the boogeyman that the US has always feared. We didn't create him or put him in power. He is the product of a corrupt and maniacal political system, and hopefully, this will be his downfall.

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Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:20

^ Re: Not a Proghead: Not disregarding the corrupt self serving intentions of the US and the EU, still shouldn't Ukraine have the freedom to decide what is best for Ukraine?

Edited by Easy Money - February 27 2022 at 18:22

NotAProghead View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:24

SteveG wrote:

Putin is the boogeyman that the US has always feared. We didn't create him or put him in power.

Obviously "you" (I mean Western politicians and media) didn't create Putin, but anyway "you" are responsible too for what happens now in Ukraine.

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:27

^ Oh my goodness, the only people responsible for the destruction in Ukraine are the people pulling the trigger.

Edited by Easy Money - February 27 2022 at 18:27

NotAProghead View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:28

Easy Money wrote:

^ Re: Not a Proghead: Not disregarding the corrupt self serving intentions of the US and the EU, still shouldn't Ukraine have the freedom to decide what is best for Ukraine?

Do you remember Carribean crises in 1962? Hadn't Cuba have the freedom to decide what is best for the island? Smile

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:31

^ Past aggressive military actions by US, England, Germany, Russia, Japan, China or anyone else are not an excuse here.

Edited by Easy Money - February 27 2022 at 18:33

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:35

^^As a citizen of the US, I do not support aggressive military action from the US, maybe you could do the same for Russia.

Edited by Easy Money - February 27 2022 at 18:37

NotAProghead View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:53

^ Your politicians stubbornly forced Russia to pull the trigger and now they hypocritically cry for Ukranian people. Too late for tears, I'm afraid.

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

SteveG

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 18:58

NotAProghead wrote:

^ Your politicians stubbornly forced Russia to pull the trigger and now they hypocritically cry for Ukranian people. Too late for tears, I'm afraid.

If you have a beef with the policies of the US that's fine and well, but you've picked a poor topic in which to express it. And we don't take any responsibility for Putin. Nor should we. Perhaps if Europe was stronger, this would not have happened. Blame the European countries for always being so damn weak.

Edited by SteveG - February 27 2022 at 19:24

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Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 19:08

NotAProghead wrote:

^ Your politicians stubbornly forced Russia to pull the trigger and now they hypocritically cry for Ukranian people. Too late for tears, I'm afraid.

No tears here, I hope the Ukrainian people rise up and kill as many invading russian pigs as they can.

I did not support US aggression in Nicaragua or Iraq, but apparently you are okay with letting your government kill as many inocent citizens as they can.

NotAProghead View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 19:18

^ Apparently you are okay with your government provoking my government to kill innocent citizens.

Discussion becomes pointless.

Who are you and who am I to say we know the reason why... (D. Gilmour)

Easy Money View Drop Down

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Posted: February 27 2022 at 19:20

^ Discussion is not pointless as long as innocent people are dying. There is one country pulling the trigger right now. If they want to stop, everyone would be most thankfull, especially the people who live in Ukraine.

Edited by Easy Money - February 27 2022 at 19:26