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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 08:12
Mr Barney, if you know you're not going to like an album where Neal Morse is a principal songwriter why do you spend the amount of time needed to absorb the music and then the time to write a review? Personally I wouldn't waste the time on listening to it in the first place more than the amount needed to get a feel for it.

For the record I'm in the same place and simply avoid his albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 08:35
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

The last Transatlantic review that spurred on a heated debate in here taught me a thing or two. The most important being that (some) reviews often say much more about the author than they do about the actual release. This review is no different. I can see why people of a Christian belief would take offence, but then again being offended is not a dangerous disease - it doesn't hurt you, and you're are fully entitled to being just that: offended.


I'm an atheist, and I live in a country that has one of the ruling parties being a Christan Democratic one, and the other one is playing the religious card one too often. Believe me, I know how to despise organized religion wanting to control everybody's lives, for more power and more money.

But I'll never mock an individual for having faith in something I don't have. I'm an atheist, and I'm a liberal, I won't tell you how to live while it's by the written law, and the unwritten law of peaceful coexistence. So I won't tell Barney to be a believer, more so, since I'm not one either. But I won't belittle and mock Neal Morse for being religious. And if he preaches too much, I won't listen to his music.

IMHO, it's not tongue-in-cheek to laugh at "Neal Morse's imaginary friend", it's belittling and mocking, and IMHO a review is not a place for that.



Edited by pjt - February 08 2014 at 08:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 09:32
Like I said, the review speaks more about the author than it does about the actual album. Whether one agrees with the content or not, I leave entirely up to you. This is also why he is "judged" the way he is in this thread, and quite rightfully so. Freedom of speech is a bitch, especially when others don't like what you have to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 10:35
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:



But I don' like atheist bigotry either, there seems to be a need to attack and dismiss all of us who believe in God, I wrote in the Atheist thread and was asked to avoid it, that they needed a place to rant about religion...
That's BS btw.

Are you sure Dean?

All this are from the Atheist thread

Originally posted by ExittheLemming ExittheLemming wrote:



Ivan is the Alianza Lima fanatic posting in a Universitario appreciation thread and feigns offense at being pilloried for his allegiance

Just how many vegetarian lions do you think had successful careers in the coliseum?

Grow up son


Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

STOP. We don't care. Go tell the f_cking Spartans.

Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Equality 7-2521 wrote:

I liked this thread better when we were all just talking about how God didn't exist and how that's kinda alright. 

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:



Thank f_ck this is the atheist thread...

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:


Shhh, Dean -- nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Particularly in an Atheist thread. I think I'll go spam the Christian thread with equally inane pronouncements regarding my non-belief, complete with whole pages of Wikipedia-derived doctrinal hyperbole. I might even bring out...the comfy chair!


And I'm not the only one who noticed

Quote Originally posted by The T
No need to silence Ivan or those with opposing views. At least for me it is somewhat of an interesting read. 

Don't deny it Dean, it's obvious.



Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - February 08 2014 at 10:39
            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guldbamsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 10:52
Please don't import yet another religious squabble into this thread Ivan. We have enough in here as it is.
Plus it isn't that strange that you'll find a bit of a struggle conveying the Christian notion in a thread that is and was labelled as non-religious from the get-go, which is the point many people have tried to make, yet you continue undeterred. Let's put it this way, I don't go into the Christian thread and start talking about atheism. 

And no this is not the starting gun of yet another new discussion. I don't wish to engage in a religious discussion with you. I respect people and their right to believe in something greater than themselves, whether that be religion, communities and so forth, but this is not the place for such discussions. That goes for the rest of the folks who wish to chime in on this matter. Please use the already existing threadsSmile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zumacraig Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 11:10
Why post the review?  Because this is a review site.  We need critical reviews to make the rating system have any meaning.  And this liberal, post modern view of 'all opinions are right' is just as dangerous as religious delusion.  That's a legitimate, thoughtful critique which gives Barney's review some heft.  Much more useful than many of the reviews for the new TA which just gush over anything Morse and company do. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M27Barney Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 11:38
I was expecting a little bit of criticism, but was not expecting such a whirlwind in a teacup
My review is the only one stating a disappointment in the release. Like that or not it's a fact. I am never going to be a "fan-boy" - I may have periods of completionist urges when I suddenly find a band that impresses me with a release, but these are then tempered with a period of cooling off, this is when I am best placed to personally judge.
I think that anybody who gets upset because I called God - Morse's "imaginary" friend needs to get some balance into their life! Like I said, the god of Abraham is currently proven to be a creation of man - until that thesis is refuted with definite facts (like gods telephone No or website) he remains - "imaginary" Prove me wrong!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 11:47
Originally posted by zumacraig zumacraig wrote:

Why post the review?  Because this is a review site.  We need critical reviews to make the rating system have any meaning.  And this liberal, post modern view of 'all opinions are right' is just as dangerous as religious delusion.  That's a legitimate, thoughtful critique which gives Barney's review some heft.  Much more useful than many of the reviews for the new TA which just gush over anything Morse and company do. 
Well said! When Camel released The Single Factor, just after a quite good album like Nude I was very disappointed. They are still one of my favorite bands and I have rated that album with one star. The same with one of the artists I'm surely a fan of, Vangelis. See You  Later is another album that I've rated with one-star.
That reviewer likes Transatlantic and is disappointed because Kaleidoscope is for him just a reprise of The Whirlwind. Regardless what disappoints him more, in this case the religious lyrics, he has the right to write it.
I've been more offensive with Vangelis and Krisma when I have written about how rubbish the lyrics of "Suffocation" are, but nobody told me anything, maybe because the argument was less sensible than religion.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ivan_Melgar_M Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 11:51
Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Please don't import yet another religious squabble into this thread Ivan. We have enough in here as it is.


I didn't do it Guldbamsen Dean said

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

That's BS btw.

I had to demonstrate it's not BS,. that it's the truth
            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 11:53
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Guldbamsen Guldbamsen wrote:

Please don't import yet another religious squabble into this thread Ivan. We have enough in here as it is.


I didn't do it Guldbamsen Dean said

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

That's BS btw.

I had to demonstrate it's not BS,. that it's the truth
see here.


(and it's still BS)
What?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pjt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 12:18
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:


I think that anybody who gets upset because I called God - Morse's "imaginary" friend needs to get some balance into their life! Like I said, the god of Abraham is currently proven to be a creation of man - until that thesis is refuted with definite facts (like gods telephone No or website) he remains - "imaginary" Prove me wrong!!!


It's ironic how those who write simply can't read. Please, humor me, and read what I actually wrote, I'll repeat it here for your convenience:

I'm an atheist, and I live in a country that has one of the ruling parties being a Christan Democratic one, and the other one is playing the religious card one too often. Believe me, I know how to despise organized religion wanting to control everybody's lives, for more power and more money.

But I'll never mock an individual for having faith in something I don't have. I'm an atheist, and I'm a liberal, I won't tell you how to live while it's by the written law, and the unwritten law of peaceful coexistence. So I won't tell Barney to be a believer, more so, since I'm not one either. But I won't belittle and mock Neal Morse for being religious. And if he preaches too much, I won't listen to his music.

IMHO, it's not tongue-in-cheek to laugh at "Neal Morse's imaginary friend", it's belittling and mocking, and IMHO a review is not a place for that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dayvenkirq Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 12:40
^ Confused see here.

Edited by Dayvenkirq - February 08 2014 at 12:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Life Syndrome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 15:12
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

I was expecting a little bit of criticism, but was not expecting such a whirlwind in a teacup
My review is the only one stating a disappointment in the release. Like that or not it's a fact. I am never going to be a "fan-boy" - I may have periods of completionist urges when I suddenly find a band that impresses me with a release, but these are then tempered with a period of cooling off, this is when I am best placed to personally judge.
I think that anybody who gets upset because I called God - Morse's "imaginary" friend needs to get some balance into their life! Like I said, the god of Abraham is currently proven to be a creation of man - until that thesis is refuted with definite facts (like gods telephone No or website) he remains - "imaginary" Prove me wrong!!!

The God of Abraham has been proven a creation of man?  When did that happen?  You, sir, just lost credibility.  Sorry.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 15:57
God is am astronaut. don't you know?

Edited by octopus-4 - February 08 2014 at 15:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote proggman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 20:06
Originally posted by M27Barney M27Barney wrote:

I was expecting a little bit of criticism, but was not expecting such a whirlwind in a teacup
My review is the only one stating a disappointment in the release. Like that or not it's a fact. I am never going to be a "fan-boy" - I may have periods of completionist urges when I suddenly find a band that impresses me with a release, but these are then tempered with a period of cooling off, this is when I am best placed to personally judge.
I think that anybody who gets upset because I called God - Morse's "imaginary" friend needs to get some balance into their life! Like I said, the god of Abraham is currently proven to be a creation of man - until that thesis is refuted with definite facts (like gods telephone No or website) he remains - "imaginary" Prove me wrong!!!

You know what! I can do the same and say that God is real and you have to prove me wrong.
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For darkness turns once more to light.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 08 2014 at 20:22
Barney's review is provocative.  Hardly a poor one, though.  I have read professional reviews making references to the cleavage of the female member in the band, or in any other way to her appearance which, needless to say, you would not be subjected to if it was an all male band and which has nothing to do with the music.  I am not sure that there would be a similar ruckus about THAT because it's totally ok to be a closet sexist, right?  As much as his review reveals his own views and the person that he is rather than the artist he is criticising, complaining about it and the tone of the complaining also reveals a lot about the complainant's priorities, if I may.

Not 'proverbially bad' to borrow an expression Starostin is fond of using.  Would have liked it if he had split it into a few paras though.  As it stands, it looks like a scribble and is difficult to read.  


Edited by rogerthat - February 08 2014 at 20:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote octopus-4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2014 at 00:40
Unless God plays an instrument, I think this discussion should be, at least, moved to another section. It has nothing more to do with music.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Second Life Syndrome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2014 at 08:34
Originally posted by octopus-4 octopus-4 wrote:

Unless God plays an instrument, I think this discussion should be, at least, moved to another section. It has nothing more to do with music.

True.  And yet his review was 50% about religion, so shouldn't it be moved elsewhere?  I think it's fine to keep the review where it is.  It just makes me sad that someone feels the need to write a review like this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2014 at 09:58
Well, there's got to be somebody to flag the album as Christian rock?  The high ratings and all round rave reviews make it look very tempting but, say, an atheist who does not want to be assaulted by Christian rock should at least be able to learn that from the reviews.  I should hope that what does and does not constitute a poor review is not determined only by its propensity to offend certain sections of people but also by how informative it is or isn't.  I didn't read all the reviews since I am not a fan of this band (and am neither atheist nor Christian, by the way) but Alan B's review was the only other that flagged this aspect.  Though it was not mentioned as a drawback.  That's a shame. Surely, if indeed Christianity is that central to Morse's lyrics, it should be mentioned in the reviews as fair warning because it can provoke strong reactions either way.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rogerthat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2014 at 10:00
Well, there's got to be somebody to flag the album as Christian rock?  The high ratings and all round rave reviews make it look very tempting but, say, an atheist who does not want to be assaulted by Christian rock should at least be able to learn that from the reviews.  I should hope that what does and does not constitute a poor review is not determined only by its propensity to offend certain sections of people but also by how informative it is or isn't.  I didn't read all the reviews since I am not a fan of this band (and am neither atheist nor Christian, by the way) but Alan B's review was the only other that flagged this aspect (though it was not mentioned as a drawback).  That's a shame. Surely, if indeed Christianity is that central to Morse's lyrics, it should be mentioned in the reviews as fair warning because it can provoke strong reactions either way.

Edited by rogerthat - February 09 2014 at 10:00
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