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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19535

Posted: January 27 2013 at 14:43

lazland wrote:

Finnforest wrote:

Tony, it's not just this thread. Certain people have a go at Ivan almost any time they see fit and I'm tired of it, so I briefly said as much. I don't care what you do with this thread. I said all I had to say here and in the equally divisive "Revolution" thread.

I have not had a go at Ivan. I repeat, my comments about Genesis and intellectually lazy had bugger all to do with him. Believe me, if they were, I would be more than happy to say so.

Never said your comments were on me (in this case) Lazland, i just voiced my opinion, but seems I'm not allowed to do that.

As anybody must have noticed, in the last year i have posted 10% of my usual number of posts, because I'm uncomfortable, and most of my posts are about team issues.

Today there's a great example how this is personal and from where personal attacks come from (not from you), this post

Snow Dog wrote:

I guess he brings it on himself. And zealot is a pretty good description.

Is personal, it ends saying that i deserve whatever some people do and that I have to accept their attacks or remain mute, but seems only Finn and i noticed it.

If I had said that, surely there would be a scandal, but what is considered a sin when i do it, it's normal when others do it.

I'll just have to accept this, but won't keep silent.

Iván

PS: Thanks to Finn and a couple Collaborators who sent me their PM's, I know I'm not imagining things as some believe

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 14:47

lazland

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Joined: October 28 2008
Location: Wales
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Points: 13627

Posted: January 27 2013 at 15:01

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Lazland wrote:

To slam such albums, as I have said many times on the site before, is intellectually and artistically lazy.

Why?

It's OK if you like it, everybody has a taste, but it's ok to hate it and believe it's an aberration without the need of calling those who disagree intellectually lazy..I bashed the album hundreds of times, because I believe it deserves bashing, but never called names to those that love it.

Iván

Ivan, my dear fellow, you always seem to want the last word, but not this time. I have pasted above your initial response to my post, which Ian, rightly, followed up with a post correctly saying that I did not call YOU intellectually lazy.

It is perfectly okay to hate this album. I am getting there myself now after all this. You said above about calling names. I did not call you, or anyone else, names. I was making what I regard as being a perfectly valid point, generically, that I regard the attitudes regarding Collins era Genesis as being intellectually lazy, a comment I stand by utterly. This is NOT the same as calling somebody names.

I am utterly fed up with all of this, so let me make something very clear. You live in Peru. I live in Wales. We have never met, nor will we ever. Without sounding rude, and this is not meant to be rude, you are fairly well down on my list of personal priorities. So, let me make this clear. Unless I name you, my comments on this site are not directed at you.

I know you, Jim, and others will not believe this (and I have got to the stage where I barely care anymore), the Revolutionise the Site thread, initially, had nothing to do with you personally. I was expressing an opinion on how I believe we can improve things. I do accept that it turned personal, and for that, I can only apologise. You do not, however, help yourself sometimes. Neither do I, for that matter.

Enough. Please leave this as the last word. You have an apology, and an assurance.

Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!

Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 15:18

lazland wrote:

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Lazland wrote:

To slam such albums, as I have said many times on the site before, is intellectually and artistically lazy.

Why?

Iván

Enough. Please leave this as the last word. You have an apology, and an assurance.

For God's sake

Where did I say your comment was directed to me?

I simply disagreed with your comment...Is that so hard to understand?

I believe anybody can bash the album they want, as long they don't insult calling it trash or crap, but how many times has Love Beach been bashed and nobody says a word?.

That was my whole point.

Iván

BTW: I read your personal attacks in your thread, but i didn't made anything, as a fact I let you say whatever you wanted and never wrote in your thread, despite I believe i have a valuable opinion in that issue, being one of the members who has stayed in a team longer.

But if I had posted anything, at least two members (one is you) would had turned it even more personal).

I'm trying to avoid problems, but when they follow me, i respond.

I accept your apology and hope this issue ends her, send whatever bands you feel to Symphonic, they will be evaluated by the team,

Edited by Ivan_Melgar_M - January 27 2013 at 15:33

Snow Dog

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 15:26

Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Today there's a great example how this is personal and from where personal attacks come from (not from you), this post

Snow Dog wrote:

I guess he brings it on himself. And zealot is a pretty good description.

Is personal, it ends saying that i deserve whatever some people do and that I have to accept their attacks or remain mute, but seems only Finn and i noticed it.

If I had said that, surely there would be a scandal, but what is considered a sin when i do it, it's normal when others do it.

I'll just have to accept this, but won't keep silent.

Iván

PS: Thanks to Finn and a couple Collaborators who sent me their PM's, I know I'm not imagining things as some believe

It isn't a personal attack. Maybe I should have said perhaps rather than I guess. But I'm just stating a possibilty that your posting style maybe the reason. And I didn't call you a zealot, but as it has been said by another it seems to me not uneasonable. Perhaps we are both zealots.

If you take this as an attack I can only repeat it wasn't.

I often defend Love Beach btw but it isn't as easily defendable. I like it because I like ELP. Thats it really

Edited by Snow Dog - January 27 2013 at 15:28

Snow Dog

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 15:27

As this thread has run it's course maybe a closure would be acceptable to everyone?

Dean

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 15:32

Love Beach didn't sell 15 million copies - ergo - most people agree that it wasn't very good. By saying that it was trash is not like saying 15,000,000 people have no appreciation of music.

Hopefully someone out there can see the distinction without getting their panties in a wad.

What?

Tony R

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 15:54

Over-sensitivity is rife in this thread.

Certain people need to leave their respective egos at the front door and remember to fetch their sense of humour instead.

Snow Dog

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 16:02

I'll have you know I lost my sense of humour in a mining accident. Tragic it was. We never talk about it. I blame Maggie.

Roland113

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 16:43

Roland113 wrote:

*sigh* arguing with Zealots is kind of like swimming in Macaroni and Cheese. It's a lot of effort for almost no reward and you still end up covered in goo.

Ivan,

I reject your ability to speak for my generation.

It is absolutely your right to hate the album, I don't dispute your hatred of it. As a lawyer though, I would expect you to not simply discount eye witness accounts of an event or an era. Seriously man, I'm not lying to you, it had an influence on people that are ten years younger.

With that being said, I'm done arguing the point.

Ivan,

I apologize for calling you a zealot. My original frustration with the Invisible Touch conversation was the lack of respect for those that like the CD but I should not have resorted to name calling or even anything remotely along those lines. Please accept my sincere apology.

Tom

Angelo

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 16:58

Thanks guys. Three people derailing a thread that had already run its course, two of whom obviously felt they did something to the third that in the end turns out to be done by a fourth....

If I still had admin rights, I'd put a lock on it right now.

ISKC Rock Radio
I stopped blogging and reviewing - so won't be handling requests. Promo's for ariplay can be sent to [email protected]

Andy Webb

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Posted: January 27 2013 at 17:29

^I trust your judgment. Wink