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Topic ClosedWho IS Frank Zappa

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2013 at 20:14
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

I'll get Yellow Shark, SUAPYG, and Thing-Fish next. I wish I could get 200 Motels. They better re-issue that one soon on UMe.


I think this would be my choices as well.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 09 2013 at 21:14
I just bought my first Zappa 2012 reissue today: Hot Rats.  I don't think I've heard the vinyl mix since I was a child.  this should be fun.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2013 at 00:50
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

I just bought my first Zappa 2012 reissue today: Hot Rats.  I don't think I've heard the vinyl mix since I was a child.  this should be fun.

I find the vinyl mix odd since I've listened to the Ryko version to death, especially on Little Umbrellas.
When the little flute solo doesn't come in I feel cheated, abused and forlorn.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2013 at 08:47
The only 2012 version that I have bought so far is Lather as I didn't already own it. Only realised after it arrived that it didn't have the bonus tracks Thumbs Down I do intend to buy more when funds allow but have vinyl & CD copies of most already.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2013 at 09:54
Originally posted by Canterzeuhl Canterzeuhl wrote:

Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

I just bought my first Zappa 2012 reissue today: Hot Rats.  I don't think I've heard the vinyl mix since I was a child.  this should be fun.

I find the vinyl mix odd since I've listened to the Ryko version to death, especially on Little Umbrellas.
When the little flute solo doesn't come in I feel cheated, abused and forlorn.


Same. I was so used to the Hot Rats remix, especially for Peaches. I do enjoy the choice now, as they're almost like completely different albums.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2013 at 09:57
Originally posted by Daysbetween Daysbetween wrote:

The only 2012 version that I have bought so far is Lather as I didn't already own it. Only realised after it arrived that it didn't have the bonus tracks Thumbs Down I do intend to buy more when funds allow but have vinyl & CD copies of most already.


Apparently, it has a slightly better sound than the 1996 Ryko with the cow on the cover. It's the only reason I'm eventually going to get it (also so I have all the 2012 reissues, 'cause I'm crazy).

I personally never listen to the bonus tracks anyway, as Knick-Knack People and Leather Goods are throwaway tracks, and Time Is Money is on Sleep Dirt. The remix of Regyptian Strut is nothing spectacular and could be throwaway too.


Edited by darkshade - February 10 2013 at 09:57
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2013 at 12:37
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

The GTOs album actually was on CD for a very short time, on the Enigma "Retro" label in the late 80s or early 90s.  I had a copy.  I thought it was a pretty bad album so I got rid of it, but then it quickly went out of print and has never returned. So I wish I'd kept it now.Unhappy  I never get rid of anything anymore!   The Wild Man Fischer album has never had an official CD release, though I have a bootleg CD of it which almost looks legit, not that I was fooled by it.  I just figured it might be my only chance to hear it.
 
There is some stuff that I would never consider "important" in terms of music per se, but they are massive, and important in another area. If you ever saw the film "The Groupies", it was a documentary about those ladies ... that film has been hidden and someone is preventing it from being sent out ... it is a lousy movie and badly shot, with no budget whatsoever, just like the album in question here ...but it gave us an absolutely GREAT snapshot of the time and place (London and LA mostly, btw!!!!) and some of the things that helped create teh myth of the start to a different degree than we are allowed to see, understand or ... appreciate.
 
When you combine this film, with this album, with 200 Motels ... a lot of things make sense of the whole weird trip and experience. The time and place "come alive" ... very differently ... and help explain the music a lot more.
 
It's the same thing, if you ever read Patti Smith's book about her time with the well known artist ... it clarifies the NY scene really well, and why so many "smaller" artists could not make it! And the kind of thing that hurts new and more experimental, or progressive, musicians at the time!
 
London also had its own (VERY) salacious scenes, though there is a lot of silence around them as some folks are either feeling like ... that was not them at the time ... but both Mick and Keith know a lot more than they will ever tell anyone!  You can catch things like "Tonite We All Love in London" and realize that the movie does not show it all, but there was a previous version of the stuff in it that had Julie Christie, Michael Caine, Lee Marvin, Alan Ginsburg, Pink Floyd with Syd Barrett at the time, Soft Machine (whose work was never shown in that film and I believe it was where the famous ABC started up and came about!), Yoko Ono, John Lennon and many others. That was NOT a coincidence and many of these people were connected in various ways, up to and including the big house that no one talks about but Daevid Allen has already suggested a couple of times, that Buroughs wanted to have sex with him when he was living in that house!
 
It helps clarify the "open-ness" in the artistic design of things in London. In LA it helps clarify the incredible groupie scene that made LA famous for its concerts and was a very special place for bands like Led Zeppelin!
 
All in all, any of this stuff, separately, is not that great and or that clear, and the creativity is not always ... up front, as to where it came from. Think about it ... the Gong Trilogy only makes sense if you are stoned senseless and are trying to give up the drugs! ... and that is NOT the only thing that the whole Trilogy is about at all! It becomes very deceptive, but very much so in the Burroughs, Hesse and various other writers style of work at the time!
 
Another example of a song that discusses the general sentiment of things at the time, would be Guru Guru's Tango Fango album when you listen to the last cut ... and realize that the "East" won't allow rock'n'roll to come in (it was considered bad!) and the "West" was trying to help the other folks their age, get the same cultural feeling and excitement from the "new Gods" ... !!! And this was 1974, BEFORE the wall came down ... here is a piece about "bringing the Germanies together again" which Mani states in English on purpose I bet! Very political behind the mask of satire and comedy! ... and beautifully done ... but not progressive for folks that ... don't get it!


Edited by moshkito - February 10 2013 at 12:41
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2013 at 22:43
Does Humor Belong In Music? is a very fun album. Great renditions of classics, some new songs, and overall great rock and jazz soloing going on. The versions of Zoot Allures and Trouble Every Day on there might be my new favorite versions. That album is one of those Zappa albums I listened to once when I first got into his music, but I was too focused on the 72-79 era that I completely overlooked it.

People rag on the 80s albums, but I think to appreciate them, you have to be a bit of a Zappa veteran of sorts, and for me, get tired of the mid-late 70s albums, and the 60s Mothers, and want more Zappa; as I find almost everything from the 80s in Zappa's catalog to be enjoyable. I always liked some stuff here and there, but never explored it deeply as I have been doing recently.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2013 at 23:26
That's my favorite version of Zoot Allures too, and also my favorite version of Tinsel Town Rebellion.  The Whipping Post isn't too shabby either.

By the way, did you know that "Co***&$kers Ball" an old doo wop cover?  I flipped when I heard that.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 12 2013 at 23:40
I think I read about that. Is it the same lyrics??

Let's Move To Cleveland is a stand-out tune, it's like the 80s answer to King Kong.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 01:49
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Apparently, it has a slightly better sound than the 1996 Ryko with the cow on the cover.

Nope, it's the same master. At best the volume might be slightly louder.

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Does Humor Belong In Music? is a very fun album. Great renditions of classics, some new songs, and overall great rock and jazz soloing going on. The versions of Zoot Allures and Trouble Every Day on there might be my new favorite versions. That album is one of those Zappa albums I listened to once when I first got into his music, but I was too focused on the 72-79 era that I completely overlooked it.

People rag on the 80s albums, but I think to appreciate them, you have to be a bit of a Zappa veteran of sorts, and for me, get tired of the mid-late 70s albums, and the 60s Mothers, and want more Zappa; as I find almost everything from the 80s in Zappa's catalog to be enjoyable. I always liked some stuff here and there, but never explored it deeply as I have been doing recently.

I think Zappa put out a lot of garbage in the 80s, but there are some real gems (mostly instrumental) too. "Drowning Witch", "Möggio", "Sinister Footwear II", "Alien Orifice", "What's New in Baltimore?" and "Let's Move to Cleveland" are among his best compositions. Too bad they're situated on albums where you have to sort through a lot of fluff. DHBIM is pretty cool despite featuring the '84, which singlehandedly ruins YCDTOSA3. Somehow Zappa managed to select exactly the right tracks. I'm especially fond of "Hot-Plate Heaven", which sounds miles ahead of the '88 version. "Let's Move to Cleveland" is great for the most part, but Allan Zavod's solo is just really, really dull. I much prefer the Best Band version. But aside from that and the always stupid "Tinseltown Rebellion" it's a surprisingly good album.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 10:12
^ For me, I disagree. While the quality of his rock albums at that time went down a little, albums like You Are What You Is, Ship Arriving Too Late..., and Tinseltown Rebellion are great. Maybe a questionable song here or there, but I think they're classic albums. Man From Utopia, Them Or Us, and other 80s albums that came after are hit or miss for sure, but they do include those other classic tunes you mentioned.

Frank Zappa Meets The Mothers of Prevention is interesting because it mixes the rock tunes with synclavier pieces, and I think it's an interesting experiment. I also think those pieces are cool, so I like Jazz From Hell and The Perfect Stranger, which is what he was more focused on at that time anyway; the classical albums. London Symphony Orchestra sounds great, and features, IMO, a great rendition of Strictly Genteel.

Of course, I've always thought the '88 band was the best thing he did since the Roxy Band. All three albums are fire. I really hope the ZFT releases a new '88 band album, full of songs yet unreleased from that lineup.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 10:40
Originally posted by HolyMoly HolyMoly wrote:

That's my favorite version of Zoot Allures too, and also my favorite version of Tinsel Town Rebellion.  The Whipping Post isn't too shabby either.
By the way, did you know that "Co***&$kers Ball" an old doo wop cover?  I flipped when I heard that.



Holy Moly!

That's fliptastic!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2013 at 12:57
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

If you did a Zappa catalog run-through chronologically, when would you listen to The Lost Episode, the Stage series, and One Shot Deal?

The Lost Episodes - no idea......
You Can't Do That On Stage series - besides vol. 2 and 5, I would listen to them after "Jazz From Hell" and "Feeding The Monkies..." sort of a summary of all the live bands up to that point before the 88 band.
One Shot Deal - somewhere in the 70s, but not sure where exactly... Some time around the Lather era maybe?


No one can chime in on this??

I've thought about it, and I thought The Lost Episodes would work as the last Zappa album to listen to, after CPIII, sort of like an epilogue album after the master's final opus. Frank always viewed his albums as tracks, part of one big piece of music.

I thought One Shot Deal could go on after Joe's Garage, sort of as a sum up of the '72-'79 era.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 01:29
Can we talk about the "Joe's" albums for a second. I'm a way's away from getting any of them, but after reading reviews, "Joe's Corsage" seems like a worthwhile one to get for a Zappa maniac such as myself, and "Joe's Menage" seems like a good mid-70s live album, though maybe unnecessary considering FZ:OZ exists; but the other two seem like something only completists would want. Can anyone maybe shed some light on how worthwhile they are?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 06:24
I haven't really paid much attention to those.  I'd also be interested in what people have to say about them.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2013 at 10:19
Going back to the albums darkshade mentioned that he doesn't have................for some odd reason, being really just a Zappa dabbler myself, I own both Francesco Zappa and Civilization Phase III.  I have no idea why I bought the Francesco album, probably thought it sounded interesting from the liner notes on the back of the CD.  Civilization I remember buying not having any clue what it was (there is no info on the outer package of the CDs, other than Frank Zappa's name and the name of the album), because the packaging seemed so cool.  It was also new at the time.

As it is, I don't enjoy either one of them, though I have a strong appreciation for Civilization due to the nature of it.  Synclavier music that is impossible for humans to play (though the Ensemble Modern surprised even Zappa with what they were capable of playing, later on).  I like the whole concept of it as well, but the music itself is just very hard going for me.  The Francesco Zappa album just seems kind of boring and simplistic to me, though I think it's also done on the Synclavier.

Anyway, just interesting how with my cautiousness in selecting Zappa albums, I somehow ended up with those two (well, at least one of them is a masterpiece, even though I don't actually find it all that enjoyable to listen to). 


Edited by infandous - February 15 2013 at 10:22
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2013 at 03:34
Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

^ For me, I disagree. While the quality of his rock albums at that time went down a little, albums like You Are What You Is, Ship Arriving Too Late..., and Tinseltown Rebellion are great. Maybe a questionable song here or there, but I think they're classic albums. Man From Utopia, Them Or Us, and other 80s albums that came after are hit or miss for sure, but they do include those other classic tunes you mentioned.

Frank Zappa Meets The Mothers of Prevention is interesting because it mixes the rock tunes with synclavier pieces, and I think it's an interesting experiment. I also think those pieces are cool, so I like Jazz From Hell and The Perfect Stranger, which is what he was more focused on at that time anyway; the classical albums. London Symphony Orchestra sounds great, and features, IMO, a great rendition of Strictly Genteel.

Of course, I've always thought the '88 band was the best thing he did since the Roxy Band. All three albums are fire. I really hope the ZFT releases a new '88 band album, full of songs yet unreleased from that lineup.

Well, don't get me wrong: The songs that I listed aren't the only ones that I enjoy, just the ones that I think are real classics. I like most of Zappa's 'regular' 80s albums more than not, even though they include a great deal of stuff that would have been left on the cutting room floor in the 70s. The only 'regular' albums I don't generally enjoy are The Man from Utopia (stupid sprechgesang tracks and dull "social critique" songs leave a bad taste in my mouth despite enjoyable instrumentals), FZMTMOP ("One Man, One Vote", "Aerobics in Bondage", "Alien Orifice" and "What's New in Baltimore?" are good, the rest is not) and Broadway the Hard Way (dull and lifeless compositions take the backseat to marginally amusing lyrics). The other two '88 albums have some great stuff on them, but the band is rather sterile-sounding and their collective soloing abilities leave a lot to be desired. The synclavier and classical albums are really only occasionally interesting, and I gave them a lot of chances. The only convincing classical endeavors of Zappa's were the Yellow Shark concerts and the accompanying album, I would say.

Originally posted by darkshade darkshade wrote:

Can we talk about the "Joe's" albums for a second. I'm a way's away from getting any of them, but after reading reviews, "Joe's Corsage" seems like a worthwhile one to get for a Zappa maniac such as myself, and "Joe's Menage" seems like a good mid-70s live album, though maybe unnecessary considering FZ:OZ exists; but the other two seem like something only completists would want. Can anyone maybe shed some light on how worthwhile they are?

Joe's Corsage is certainly worth a few listens as a Zappa fanatic, especially if you like the Freak Out! album. The performances aren't very impressive, but they have more than just historical value. I was especially interested by the cover of Marvin Gaye's "Hitch Hike" and "I'm So Happy I Could Cry", which is "Take Your Clothes Off" with different lyrics.

Joe's Menage is rather pointless if you have FZ:OZ. The band is the same, and I consider it one of Zappa's weakest lineups: There are simply too few musicians on stage, so everything sounds a bit thin. Apart from some falsetto vocals, Roy is hardly the maniac he used to be and has instead become a faceless and uninteresting background musician. Napoleon suffers from the lack of George Duke and not knowing what to do with the fairly rigid and straightforward material. André Lewis is just completely unremarkable in every way. Terry rarely gets a chance to stretch because the setlist is so song-oriented. The only unique song is "Honey, Don't You Want a Man Like Me?" (which they cut from FZ:OZ for some reason, even though it was performed that evening), and it's not a particularly interesting performance when compared with the versions Zappa released during his lifetime. Really, the only reason to get this is if you liked "Chunga's Revenge" and "Zoot Allures" (the only tunes with a fair amount of improvisation in them) on FZ:OZ and want more. The 'rhythm guitar solo' on "Chunga's Revenge" is pretty funny.

Joe's Domage is a bunch of rehearsals for the Waka/Jawaka and Grand Wazoo albums, so it was never intended to be listened to by anybody, and this clearly shows. You get the chance to witness some in-progress ideas that didn't make it on the albums ("Another Whole Melodic Section", the vocals to "The Grand Wazoo", the medley of "Blessed Relief" and "New Brown Clouds"), but these ideas are raw and performed by a band that is just learning the material. This is the kind of stuff that is so unworthy of release that it might even cure completists of their 'disease'.

Joe's XMASage is, to be honest, a bunch of random pre-Mothers junk that Joe Travers found lying around in the vault. The 'highlights' include: Frank talking about an Xmas dance where he performed, Frank, Ray and some other guy reading a letter they found somewhere (for 11 minutes!), an excerpt from a half-joking college radio show Frank did in the early 60s, a skit where Frank interviews Ray as rock star "Suckit Rockit" and a bunch of woefully inadequate jams with some local guys who never made it beyond the bar band scene. The closest this album comes to interesting are a pair of minute-long early electronic music experiments. In other words, you're really wasting your money if you get this.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2013 at 02:04
I think Frank is often overlooked as a classical composer. It's albums like "Lumpy Gravy", "Uncle Meat", and "The Perfect Stranger" that present some of the best classical and pseudo-classical compositions I've ever heard.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2013 at 11:04
Don't forget about Orchestral Favorites, 200 Motels, London Symphony Orchestra, The Yellow Shark, Civilization Phaze III, and even Wazoo (2007) for the performance of Greggary Peccary and Penis Dimension.
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